Not sure what to do

[driftboutique]

However, if you choose to ONLY take without even the minimal effort of at least gifting in return for the gifts that you do want, then yes you are dead weight and tacky as a neighbor. You're violating the cultural expectations of the majority of the planet and really can't reasonably expect the rest of us to love you for it.

Again, here's the problem. You have no idea what kind of person someone is based on their style of play. None. There is no social contract in Team Lava games. People participate to the extent of their willingness, end of story. Yes, there are people who share your opinion. But that does not mean all or even a majority do, and it does not confer the moral high ground to you. It's not an issue of morality.

And this has nothing to do with poor reading comprehension. You don't have to talk down to people just because they dare to disagree with your opinion. And anthropology treatises notwithstanding, make no mistake -- your opinion is not fact, no matter how aggressively you repeat it.

[DAmanding]

I just can't find it in me to have a great deal of sympathy for people who take without giving regardless of their motivations. The people Smokey and I were talking about not only weren't tipping, they weren't even gifting.

Nope. Sorry but it's not the same AT ALL.

I don't have a choice to accept your tip or not. I can't control who tips me beyond having a minimum of tables so that they fill up and can't get tipped any more.

You realize there is no choice of whether to participate in the tipping system or not right?

It's a completely different situation from a face to face interaction where if I accept a gift willingly from another person without anything in return.

Even so, it's wrong to think of a gift as guaranteeing you anything in return. You do realize what a gift is right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift
A gift or a present is the transfer of something without the expectation of payment. Although gift-giving might involve an expectation of reciprocity, a gift is meant to be free.

You have the wrong impression of what a gift is.

Tipping in these games is a gift. It's not actually a tip. A tip is meant as a reward for good service rendered. There is no service rendered when you visit a neighbor's restaurant except you hope by leaving tips you get tipped in return.

Even the Wikipedia definition you quoted states that an expectation of reciprocity may be involved. You even quoted it. So are you telling me that if a spouse, sibling, parent or child gives you a gift on your birthday in real life, there is truly absolutely zero expectation that they will ever get a gift from you on any of their birthdays? You must have a very unique family.

I'm well aware of the fact that you can't make it impossible to allow people to tip you and still serve customers. If you read my previous post I stated twice that if you make a reasonable attempt to let your neighbors know by posting on your wall that you never return tips, you've already exempted yourself from expectation. In real life I can't afford to give birthday gifts to everyone I know. So I let my friends know that I don't plan to gift them on their birthday and therefore don't expect one on mine. That's considered polite behavior. Every few years I may gift my closest friends and they periodically gift me, not necessarily in the same year but over a period of many years it generally evens out. These gifts actually become more meaningful because they weren't expected.

[DAmanding]

What I wouldn't give to be on Vulcan at times.

[DAmanding]

And this has nothing to do with poor reading comprehension. You don't have to talk down to people just because they dare to disagree with your opinion. And anthropology treatises notwithstanding, make no mistake -- your opinion is not fact, no matter how aggressively you repeat it.

I could say the exact same thing to you. Despite your insistence that I'm attacking you, I am in fact the person under attack. I've been very careful to describe a very specific sort of player which by your own admissions you don't fit the description of. I've been trying to say that I'm not talking about you but for whatever reason (Freud would have a field day) you continue to insist on being offended. As for your argument that my discussions on the cultural expectations of gift giving and reciprocity are simply opinion and not factual...well there's really not much point in continuing that discussion. Obviously no amount of scientific fact, example, or history given would make a difference.

[ultrafrog]

Except it's not the same as a gift you put thought into, bought and wrapped and delivered. It's tapping on a screen.

People shouldn't even have to post to every person that tipped them that they don't tip back. If you tip someone and don't get tips back, get the hint and move on. If it's a neighbor and you can't stand it, delete that person, or else just stop tipping and getting upset over it. It's self explanatory. Someone that doesn't care to tip back isn't going to care to post on everyone's wall that they play the game differently.

Think about if you constantly got gifts from strangers in real life and now they are expecting you to do the same for each and every one of them. Believe it or not gifts ARE more trouble than they are worth to many people. It's consumerism for the sake of consumption.

You are using a ton of projection -
"They know that their style of playing is not preferred by everyone and they just add anyone's ID they can hoping to get enough people willing to keep them even though they're dead weight and obviously this tactic works for them."

regarding how others play the game.

You are simply setting yourself up for disappointment when you spend time tipping others and don't get tipped back. No one asked for any of this. If that neighbor said "hey, tip me" and didn't tip back then you might have a valid argument. You taking the initiative to tip and getting upset when you don't get tipped back is NOT grounds for getting upset. That person NEVER asked for it.

[DAmanding]

Except it's not the same as a gift you put thought into, bought and wrapped and delivered. It's tapping on a screen.

No, sending someone a gift (not tips) in game is a whole lot simpler and costs very little time. So why is it so unreasonable to expect neighbors to at least attempt to send a gift once a day? Again, I'm not talking about non-tippers, I'm talking about non-gifters...that part of the equation in this conversation that you and driftboutique so conveniently leave out of your part of the discussion. Perhaps because when they are in the equation your arguments are a lot less reasonable then when we're just talking about tips?

People shouldn't even have to post to every person that tipped them that they don't tip back.

I never once said you should. I believe that qualifies by most people's standards as unreasonable. I said a reasonable attempt such as posting on your wall, not their wall. I would add that it is reasonable to tell someone when they first add you as a neighbor as a one time thing.

If you tip someone and don't get tips back, get the hint and move on. If it's a neighbor and you can't stand it, delete that person, or else just stop tipping and getting upset over it. It's self explanatory..

I've said the exact same thing myself numerous times. I'm not the least bit upset over non-tippers not tipping me. I just won't keep them as neighbors and my advice to Smokey was to delete them without feeling guilty since she appeared to be moving in the direction of not wanting them as neighbors either.

Hyperbole much?

[SmokeyMtnGirl]

Like Rose said, the offensive comments are coming from another poster, not you. But I'm confused about one thing -- did you not suggest that people who elect not to tip in RS/BS are comparable to people who fail to tip in real life? If you did not say that, I misunderstood your comment and I apologize.

you are taking the comment too literal. I did say that when I tip every day and gift every day and get nothing in return that it reminded me of when I was a waitress and got stiffed. I didn't say people who don't tip in this game were bad people nor did I say they would still a real waitress.

[ultrafrog]

Really I simply disagree with you dictating how players play their game. You assume way too much.

"They know that their style of playing is not preferred by everyone and they just add anyone's ID they can hoping to get enough people willing to keep them even though they're dead weight and obviously this tactic works for them."

[SmokeyMtnGirl]

Apparently I've hit some sensitive nerves. I don't apologize for my opinions, I think my opinion of people who don't tip AND don't gift but keep neighbors to receive gifts and/or tips as takers without giving is dead on accurate. If you go back and ACTUALLY READ what I said (highlighted in bold above), I specified I was talking about the neighbors of Smokey who were neither tipping nor gifting, I never singled out people who gift but don't tip.


If you are a non-tipper but gift daily then you're not so much a mooch, especially if you've made it clear to people that you're a non-tipper. If you're a non-tipper but daily gifter I think the polite thing to do is state that on your wall so that those people that who do tip in the quite reasonable expectation of getting a tip back will know they don't need to waste their time tipping you.




Ok, the anthropologist in me has to come out and speak to this one. The vast majority of cultures around the world, throughout history have valued some sort of system of reciprocity. Any anthro 101 class will tell you that there are no such things as universal cultural concepts, but that there are cultural concepts that are mostly universal and reciprocity is one of them. The reality is that the vast majority of players come from cultures that value some sort of expectation of reciprocity and so while tipping back isn't required...it is generally going to be expected. Verbally demanding tip backs is often considered immature behavior, but not because the expectation itself is invalid.

So if you choose to not tip, that is your choice, though I'll repeat the polite thing to do is let people know that is your practice up front. If they know that is your practice and choose to tip anyway, no worries. Shame on them if they get mad cause you didn't tip back and they had fair warning. There are lots of people in these games who are only interested in gifting and as
long as you don't expect people who want more to be neighbors with you, then all the power in the world to you.

However, if you choose to ONLY take without even the minimal effort of at least gifting in return for the gifts that you do want, then yes you are dead weight and tacky as a neighbor. You're violating the cultural expectations of the majority of the planet and really can't reasonably expect the rest of us to love you for it.
I'll say again what I've said in other threads, I don't expect everyone to have time in their lives to play the way that I do. That would be unreasonable and unrealistic. I can manage it only because I keep my neighbor list small. I simply cut out the neighbors who don't want the things I want so we can all enjoy ourselves and be happy. This thread started because Smokey was questioning which style of play she wanted to have and I gave her advice based on my style of play.

I get what your saying. I agree it isn't right for players to take tips for say 50 tables every day and then tip no one in return. If you tip like 4 people you will move to level 1. So to stay at level zero you have to be not tipping at all. I know Rose, I think, said she didn't care about tips. But ppl with 50 plus tables that have no chairs and clear every day do care about tips. They take and don't give back.

I will say this. I kept a few zero stars and tipped the last 3 days. They cleared their tables and didn't tip back. So I zapped them. lol. But it's cool cause I already have 3 or 4 new neighbors who want to exchange tips daily.

[SmokeyMtnGirl]

Nope. Sorry but it's not the same AT ALL.

I don't have a choice to accept your tip or not. I can't control who tips me beyond having a minimum of tables so that they fill up and can't get tipped any more.



You realize there is no choice of whether to participate in the tipping system or not right?

It's a completely different situation from a face to face interaction where if I accept a gift willingly from another person without anything in return.


Even so, it's wrong to think of a gift as guaranteeing you anything in return. You do realize what a gift is right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift
A gift or a present is the transfer of something without the expectation of payment. Although gift-giving might involve an expectation of reciprocity, a gift is meant to be free.

You have the wrong impression of what a gift is.

Tipping in these games is a gift. It's not actually a tip. A tip is meant as a reward for good service rendered. There is no
service rendered when you visit a neighbor's restaurant except you hope by leaving tips you get tipped in return.

But you aren't providing a service. And you don't have to pick up the tips either. I think the concept of the game is you tip and the player tips you back. You both gets more coins.