ogreve
07-14-15, 03:04 PM
Well.... Apparently as I was typing the below long advice on breeding for ultra rares (as a reply to the "trying for a unicorn" post), that thread was closed and my answer couldn't be added anymore.
But... basically the information and strategies apply generically, so I'm posting it as a new thread here (one that is not limited to the Unicorn alone, that is).
Wow, congrats Ca7007!
I've been trying for a Crystal Unicorn almost exclusively for several months now with no success. So yeah, it's very rare and you just need to keep trying. I don't think any one combination of 4 elements has a higher success rate than others, but you could try combos with the least number of possible outcomes (not sure which combination that would be though...).
Good luck! :)
Hi,
I'm in the same boat as you: I've been trying for several months now with all sorts of combinations and all to no avail. The thing is... we just don't know exactly for sure how the outcomes are determined. Being a programmer myself, I would have absolutely no hard time at all in implementing the following three distinct approaches to calculating the chance for an ultra rare:
1) Use some kind of "flexible division key" over the total set of outcomes, such that the chance for EACH category of animals (i.e. common, rare, super rare and ultra rare) is only relative to the other categories, e.g. say that each breeding has 1 times X chance at an ultra rare, 5 times X chance at a super rare, 15 times X chance at a rare and 35 times X chance at a common. If 'X' is then determined by the total AMOUNT of outcomes (such that the total calculated out outcomes always adds up to 100%), then indeed the fewer the outcomes, the higher the chance at an ultra rare would be.
2) Use a "fixed" percentage chance at an ultra rare, and use logic similar to what was written under number 1 for the other categories. If, for example, TL wants to make sure that the chance at an ultra rare is ALWAYS exactly 1% (or less, who knows...) they can easily do so. Almost certainly (though NOT necessarily so!!!) some kind of random number is generated for picking an outcome. For easiness sake, let's suppose that number is always an integer number between 1 and 100 (both inclusive). Now, suppose that only an ultra rare is given if the random number is the number 1, and that the other 99 random outcomes account for the total of the rest of the categories, then no matter what combination you use, you'd always have precisely a 1% chance at an ultra rare (assuming that the 'random' numbers are close enough to 'true random numbers' (a thing which is very hard to do for computers) and that ALL numbers in the range have an equal chance of being the outcome).
3) Using more complex logic. Zenobia started to suspect that the chance at an ultra rare was also influenced by other criteria such as the player's level, the amount of gems they spent vs. the amount they have, etc. I'm sure a lot of people thought her paranoid over this, but mere fact is that it is actually quite easy to indeed program such 'complex' seeding criteria for determining the outcome.
I'm sure that almost everyone over here assumes strategy number 1 to be the one that has been implemented, but fact is that we're not sure of that. Strategy number 2 could just as well be the implemented one, in order to prevent specific 'breeding glitches' from too easily resulting in an ultra rare. Both of these strategies are what I consider "fair game".
It would be extremely lame though if strategy 3 is the case, as that would mean that the outcomes are determined by something else than "mere luck" and it would most definitely not feel (and probably not be) a fair way to determine the outcome.
As a programmer, implementing either of these strategies would take about 15 minutes of my time. As a matter of fact, I often hear the "suspicion" that it seems that low level players tend to get the Unicorn far more easily than the high level players. I sure have tried and no score yet. If that observation is true and representative for the chances at getting a Unicorn for ALL players (i.e. not just a few of them who have reported such over here) then that would be what I would qualify as extremely lame and unfair.
Let's just hope that such is not the case.
[removed third party link (http://forums.storm8.com/showthread.php?58319-Please-do-not-post-outside-links)]
Some tips:
-Several elements result in long breeding times, in particular dark and electric. If you eliminate those (as much as possible) from your choice for the 4 elements you want to include in the breeding, you are more likely to get shorter fails and hence you can have more attempts at it in the same amount of time.
-If you include 'fire' and 'water' in your mix, the only outcome of those two elements is the Skyger, effectively limiting the entire amount of "fire-water" outcomes to a single animal. Fire and electric can only result in 3 animals as outcome. Therefore, a combination of fire-water-electric-<something> tends to give relatively few outcomes.
-As a general strategy, I like to pick elements that can also give me plenty of "good collateral damage" in the form of the fails being likely to be an animal I still need. This, and the few seconds thrill when you put in a breeding and hold your breath hoping it's going to show a 45 hour timer, are what keeps me interested in having 4-element shots. This is also why I've now for almost an entire week been breeding with the 4 elements nature-electric-water-dark: a lot of "good collaterals" (like the Catypuss and even the Aurora Pegasus I got out of it!) and combined with that, each of these attempts gave me a shot at the Unicorn.
-You may want to put in some 4-element attempts when an "animal trio" can be bred, like was the case for the Cosmic and Music animals. If you combined e.g. a Lullabison (music-earth) with something like, say a Vinotaur, you would have a 4-element shot at a Unicorn, and as music was not combinable with nature and there only being 1 music-earth and 1 music-fire outcome, which were then part of the mix anyway due to the earth-fire combination, the amount of potential outcomes was drastically reduced. Normally the amount of outcomes from 4-element breeding is around 30, but with that combination IIRC it was limited to only 17 outcomes. I know that at least one person on the forums got their Unicorn this way, so perhaps "strategy 1" is the one that's in use after all...
Alright, this is a lot of "food for thought". I recommend you to especially heed the advice of choosing combinations that can give you a good amount of good fails. If you don't, you're likely to get really frustrated over the breeding attempts...
Good luck!
Olafo
But... basically the information and strategies apply generically, so I'm posting it as a new thread here (one that is not limited to the Unicorn alone, that is).
Wow, congrats Ca7007!
I've been trying for a Crystal Unicorn almost exclusively for several months now with no success. So yeah, it's very rare and you just need to keep trying. I don't think any one combination of 4 elements has a higher success rate than others, but you could try combos with the least number of possible outcomes (not sure which combination that would be though...).
Good luck! :)
Hi,
I'm in the same boat as you: I've been trying for several months now with all sorts of combinations and all to no avail. The thing is... we just don't know exactly for sure how the outcomes are determined. Being a programmer myself, I would have absolutely no hard time at all in implementing the following three distinct approaches to calculating the chance for an ultra rare:
1) Use some kind of "flexible division key" over the total set of outcomes, such that the chance for EACH category of animals (i.e. common, rare, super rare and ultra rare) is only relative to the other categories, e.g. say that each breeding has 1 times X chance at an ultra rare, 5 times X chance at a super rare, 15 times X chance at a rare and 35 times X chance at a common. If 'X' is then determined by the total AMOUNT of outcomes (such that the total calculated out outcomes always adds up to 100%), then indeed the fewer the outcomes, the higher the chance at an ultra rare would be.
2) Use a "fixed" percentage chance at an ultra rare, and use logic similar to what was written under number 1 for the other categories. If, for example, TL wants to make sure that the chance at an ultra rare is ALWAYS exactly 1% (or less, who knows...) they can easily do so. Almost certainly (though NOT necessarily so!!!) some kind of random number is generated for picking an outcome. For easiness sake, let's suppose that number is always an integer number between 1 and 100 (both inclusive). Now, suppose that only an ultra rare is given if the random number is the number 1, and that the other 99 random outcomes account for the total of the rest of the categories, then no matter what combination you use, you'd always have precisely a 1% chance at an ultra rare (assuming that the 'random' numbers are close enough to 'true random numbers' (a thing which is very hard to do for computers) and that ALL numbers in the range have an equal chance of being the outcome).
3) Using more complex logic. Zenobia started to suspect that the chance at an ultra rare was also influenced by other criteria such as the player's level, the amount of gems they spent vs. the amount they have, etc. I'm sure a lot of people thought her paranoid over this, but mere fact is that it is actually quite easy to indeed program such 'complex' seeding criteria for determining the outcome.
I'm sure that almost everyone over here assumes strategy number 1 to be the one that has been implemented, but fact is that we're not sure of that. Strategy number 2 could just as well be the implemented one, in order to prevent specific 'breeding glitches' from too easily resulting in an ultra rare. Both of these strategies are what I consider "fair game".
It would be extremely lame though if strategy 3 is the case, as that would mean that the outcomes are determined by something else than "mere luck" and it would most definitely not feel (and probably not be) a fair way to determine the outcome.
As a programmer, implementing either of these strategies would take about 15 minutes of my time. As a matter of fact, I often hear the "suspicion" that it seems that low level players tend to get the Unicorn far more easily than the high level players. I sure have tried and no score yet. If that observation is true and representative for the chances at getting a Unicorn for ALL players (i.e. not just a few of them who have reported such over here) then that would be what I would qualify as extremely lame and unfair.
Let's just hope that such is not the case.
[removed third party link (http://forums.storm8.com/showthread.php?58319-Please-do-not-post-outside-links)]
Some tips:
-Several elements result in long breeding times, in particular dark and electric. If you eliminate those (as much as possible) from your choice for the 4 elements you want to include in the breeding, you are more likely to get shorter fails and hence you can have more attempts at it in the same amount of time.
-If you include 'fire' and 'water' in your mix, the only outcome of those two elements is the Skyger, effectively limiting the entire amount of "fire-water" outcomes to a single animal. Fire and electric can only result in 3 animals as outcome. Therefore, a combination of fire-water-electric-<something> tends to give relatively few outcomes.
-As a general strategy, I like to pick elements that can also give me plenty of "good collateral damage" in the form of the fails being likely to be an animal I still need. This, and the few seconds thrill when you put in a breeding and hold your breath hoping it's going to show a 45 hour timer, are what keeps me interested in having 4-element shots. This is also why I've now for almost an entire week been breeding with the 4 elements nature-electric-water-dark: a lot of "good collaterals" (like the Catypuss and even the Aurora Pegasus I got out of it!) and combined with that, each of these attempts gave me a shot at the Unicorn.
-You may want to put in some 4-element attempts when an "animal trio" can be bred, like was the case for the Cosmic and Music animals. If you combined e.g. a Lullabison (music-earth) with something like, say a Vinotaur, you would have a 4-element shot at a Unicorn, and as music was not combinable with nature and there only being 1 music-earth and 1 music-fire outcome, which were then part of the mix anyway due to the earth-fire combination, the amount of potential outcomes was drastically reduced. Normally the amount of outcomes from 4-element breeding is around 30, but with that combination IIRC it was limited to only 17 outcomes. I know that at least one person on the forums got their Unicorn this way, so perhaps "strategy 1" is the one that's in use after all...
Alright, this is a lot of "food for thought". I recommend you to especially heed the advice of choosing combinations that can give you a good amount of good fails. If you don't, you're likely to get really frustrated over the breeding attempts...
Good luck!
Olafo