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SANDSCApe
09-17-14, 09:08 AM
There are a few things that a true warrior needs to know about Fantasy Forest battles. A lot of players get confused about the significance of the "Strong Attack" "Weak Attack" or "Critical Hit" messages that appear when they tap the attack buttons. This guide will hopefully take away the confusion and mystery. Warning: It is LONG, and broken into sections in separate postings.

1. SCORES I start with an overview of how your attack is scored because, ultimately, that's what determines your chance of winning. "Strong" "Weak" and "Critical" are NOT scores! We will get to what they mean to you later.

2. HITS AND DAMAGE I describe the various types of hits and the damage they are capable of doing. This is one place where players are confusing the visual cues.

3. DEFENSE I cover what works in your favor, aside from the obvious Critical Hit and Ultimate option.

4. STANDARD HITS & RATINGS I address all that misleading stuff with "Strong Attack" and "Weak Attack" (another place where players are misreading visual cues). What does it really mean?

5. CRITICAL THINKING I examine the event that seals the deal for most battles.

6. ATTACK BUTTONS DEMYSTIFIED Which attack button to use? I explain what actually happens as you tap either the blue or purple attack buttons -- the commands they send to the system and how the game responds.

7. THE NET ELEMENT BONUS I explain the role of the elements in your fighter selection and how they affect your score.

8. UNIVERSAL FIGHTER SELECTOR I provide a tool that works in all Battleground regions and Arena Tournaments. The NEB was calculated for each responder type against every challenger type to create this tool.

Please note that this guide does NOT claim to know the specific odds for any battle event, nor do I have data on the raw scores mapped to particular animals or to their elements, rarity or levels. TeamLava will never provide that information, and we don't actually NEED it to succeed at the battles. It is also unlikely that any TeamLava representative will ever verify or validate what I explain in this guide, although they are certainly welcome to do so.

SANDSCApe
09-17-14, 09:12 AM
SCORES
Your animal is given three separate quantitative scores, depending on how it matches up against the opponent. You get one score for the match-up of BOTH your elements against BOTH the opponent's elements. If yours are collectively stronger, you get bonus points; if weaker, you lose points. (See the Net Element Bonus for more details.)

You get a second score for your animal's rarity versus the opponent's, and a third score for your animal's level versus the opponent's level. If your rarity or level are higher, you gain points in that category; if they are lower, you lose points.

All three scores are combined and then mapped against specific odds for a Critical Hit. The higher your total score, the greater your chance of rolling a Critical Hit; the lower your total score, the less chance you have for a Critical.

Please realize that your total score and, by extension, your odds for a Crit, are determined BEFORE YOU EVEN TOUCH AN ATTACK BUTTON. Your odds are based on your selection and calculated the instant you tap the BATTLE NOW button.

The Critical Hit is important because of how much DAMAGE it does, but YOU DO NOT ABSOLUTELY NEED A CRITICAL HIT to win; you just can't lose once you get one.


HITS AND DAMAGE
There are FOUR TYPES OF HITS, each with its own range of DAMAGE:

Ultimate Hit. Delivers 100% damage. How to get it: Just press the purple button on the right side of the attack screen and pay gems for instant GUARANTEED victory.

Critical Hit. Delivers 50-100% damage. How to get it: Pick your best possible fighter and attack to secure your highest chance; then cross your fingers. You get the Crit purely by CHANCE; never guaranteed, but always possible.

Standard Hit. Delivers 25-33% damage. This is what most of your attacks will do. You CAN WIN with only standard hits if you can manage to land four of them. How? I'll get to that later. You know you have a standard hit if it is rated "Strong Attack" or "Weak Attack" or even not rated at all.

Incoming Hit. Delivers 20-49% damage to YOUR animal. This is what the opponent does on counter-attacks.

You can assess the amount of damage each attack or counter-attack does by noting the incremental changes in the health meters of both animals.

SANDSCApe
09-17-14, 09:16 AM
DEFENSE

Notice that the range of the incoming hits is such that the opponent can never defeat you with less than 3 counter attacks, because the first two can do no more than 98% damage to your animal.

Notice also that if the first two counter attacks fall within the 20-25% range, the third one will leave your animal standing. At this point, no matter what you do, your 4th attack will win the battle. This is how you can win without either an Ultimate or a Critical Hit. It is essentially a DEFENSIVE WIN; less about your own attacks and more about how your animal's elements (BOTH of them), rarity and level held up against the opponent's counter-attack. In fact, you can even get a defensive win with FOUR "WEAK" ATTACKS!

If you select based only upon which element you are using to attack, then you may be losing out on the additional chance for victory offered by a defensively superior animal. The defensive win is by far my FAVORITE WAY TO WIN, because it doesn't just depend on a digital dice-roll; it's really your animal overpowering that opponent. YOU!

As a form of encouragement perhaps, the regular Battleground challengers are handicapped at battle levels ending in 1 or 6 (...6, 11, 16, 21...), so players automatically get a defensive victory in those battles unless they roll a Critical.


STANDARD HITS & RATINGS
Since your standard hits deliver 25-33% damage, you cannot defeat the opponent with only 3 standard hits; whereas the opponent can wipe YOU out with 3 counter-attacks. Remember that any attack you make that is neither an Ultimate nor Critical Hit is a standard hit with that narrow range of damage. This is why your 3 "Strong" attacks can lose. They are standard, just like the "Weak" attacks.

So what does "Weak Attack" or "Strong Attack" mean if they only appear when you're doing standard damage? Are they totally meaningless? No!

The ratings of your attacks are not a quantitative score; they are qualitative. More to the point, they simply rate your attacking ELEMENT against the element combination of your opponent. A better label would be "Weak Element," "Strong Element," and really, that's how you should interpret it, keeping in mind that there are two other factors (rarity and levels of the two opposing animals) that also contribute to your chances of victory.

The element ratings don't just pertain to your current battle. They serve as a BUILT-IN TUTORIAL so that you can make better choices on your rematch if you lose. They may also be telling you that you don't need to change a thing. If your element was strong against opponent X, use it again! The game also assumes that individual players may take notes and learn how a particular element fares against another element, the same element, or an element combination. It does NOT assume that we all come on the forum to take someone else's word for what is strong or weak against what.

SANDSCApe
09-17-14, 09:18 AM
CRITICAL THINKING
Oddly enough, the most useless message on the battleground is the one we most want to see. "Critical Hit" does not tell you ANYTHING about your animal's strength or the quality of your chosen elements. Since even the worst choice has at least a minimal chance for a Crit, getting it does not indicate whether your animal had a high or low chance of getting it. All you know is you've got it! Yay!

Its range of 50-100% damage can take out an opponent instantly, or may need to be combined with one or two other hits. Doesn't matter. You can't lose if you roll at least one Crit in a battle. Unless you have gems to splurge on the purple button, Crits are how you'll be getting most of your wins.

Just remember that if you pick an animal with the best elements against your opponent and you match or surpass the rarity and level of the opponent, you have a relatively high chance of rolling a Crit; but it still is only a CHANCE, and never a 100% chance. The best can lose against the worst. Deal with it, because every now and then, that will actually work in your favor.

SANDSCApe
09-17-14, 09:22 AM
ELEMENT BUTTONS DEMYSTIFIED
I've re-examined the issue of the role of the primary/attacking element versus the secondary "unused" element when using a hybrid fighter. I think the fact that most of our standard hits get rated "weak" or "strong" has misled us into thinking that the attack choice matters, or that the "unused" element is weighed differently from the attacking element.

I'm going to present evidence to dispel the notion that it matters which of your animal's element you use for attack. Moreover, I'm debunking the concept of a secondary or unused element.

Premises:
1. Outside of the Ultimate option, there are only two ways to win -- roll a Critical Hit or land 4 standard hits for a defensive victory.
2. The chances for a Critical Hit are predetermined by your choice of fighter. Nothing you do during the battle can change those odds.
3. The chances for a defensive victory are also dependent on your choice of fighter. Nothing you do during the battle can affect how much damage the opponent is doing.

It therefore does not matter, once you have chosen your fighter and tapped the BATTLE NOW button, which of your fighter's elements you use because your attacks can only produce two results: standard damage of 25-33% or critical damage of 50-100%.

Basically, the buttons you press during battle say the following things to the system:
A. Ultimate button (purple): I don't want to roll the dice. Let me instantly do 100% damage in exchange for the stated gems. Play an extra cool destruction animation as I win.
B. First element button (blue): I want to roll the dice based on the odds set by my animal versus your animal. Play the regular attack animation for this element. If I don't roll a Critical Hit, tell me how good this element is against your fighter.
C. Second element button (blue), if your animal is a hybrid: I want to roll the dice based on the odds set by my animal versus your animal. Play the regular attack animation for this element. If I don't roll a Critical Hit, tell me how good this element is against your fighter.
The system will then faithfully obey your commands.

THE NET ELEMENT BONUS
So it's all about the fighter selection, if you're going for the dice roll. THERE IS NO UNUSED ELEMENT! What you need to aim for with elements is what I call the Net Element Bonus (NEB). Add 1 point for each strength and minus one point for each weakness. The total will be your NEB.
If your fighter has 2 strong elements and no weak, NEB is 2.
2 strong and 1 weak is a NEB of 1.
1 strong and 1 weak is a NEB of zero.
1 strong and 2 weak is a NEB of -1.
2 weak and no strong is a NEB of -2.
Match up each of your fighter's elements against BOTH of the opponent's elements to calculate your NEB. You must determine for yourself the best way to maximize NEB, rarity and level.

SANDSCApe
09-17-14, 09:25 AM
UNIVERSAL FIGHTER SELECTOR
Search for the line that begins with the challenger's elemental Type, then select the highest rarity and level you have from the recommended responder types. Elements matter more than rarity. Rarity matters more than level.
See the bottom of the post for notes that may help you use the Selector.

Pure Gem: Use Electric-Dark, Dark-Water or Dark-Fire. <DARK>

Gem-Nature: Use Gem-Fire or Dark-Fire

Gem-Fire: Use Electric-Water, Dark-Water, Water-Earth or Water-Fire <WATER>

Pure Electric: Use Electric-Earth, Dark-Earth, Earth-Nature or Earth-Fire <EARTH>

Electric-Dark: Use Earth-Fire

Electric-Water: Use Electric-Earth

Electric-Earth: Use Gem-Nature or Earth-Nature

Electric-Nature: Use Gem-Fire!! Second-best responders are Pure Gem, Gem-Nature, Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire, Earth-Fire or Nature-Fire <GEM> <FIRE>

Electric-Fire: Use Electric-Earth or Earth-Fire <EARTH>

Pure Dark: Use Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire, Earth-Fire, or Nature-Fire <FIRE>

Dark-Water: Use Electric-Dark, Electric-Water, Electric-Earth. Electric-Nature or Electric-Fire <ELECTRIC>

Dark-Earth: Use Gem-Nature, Dark-Nature, Water-Nature, Earth-Nature or Nature-Fire. <NATURE>

Dark-Nature: Use Gem-Fire, Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire, Water-Fire or Nature-Fire <FIRE>

Dark-Fire: Use Water-Earth, Water-Fire or Earth-Fire

Pure Water: Use Electric-Dark, Electric-Water, Electric-Earth or Electric-Nature <ELECTRIC>

Water-Earth: Use Gem-Nature. Second-best responders are Pure Gem, Electric-Nature, Dark-Nature, Water-Nature or Earth-Nature <GEM> <NATURE>

Water-Nature: use Pure Gem, Gem-Nature, Gem-Fire, Electric-Dark, Electric-Water, Electric-Nature or Electric-Fire. <GEM> <ELECTRIC>

Water-Fire: use Electric-Water, Electric-Earth or Water-Earth

Pure Earth: Use Gem-Nature. Second-best responders are Pure Gem, Dark-Nature, Water-Nature or Earth-Nature. <GEM> <NATURE>

Earth-Nature: Use Gem-Nature!!! Second-best responders are Gem-Fire or Pure Gem. Third-best responders are Dark-Nature, Water-Nature or Nature-Fire <GEM> <NATURE>

Earth-Fire: Use Water-Earth

Pure Nature: Use Gem-Fire!! Second-best responders are Pure Gem, Gem-Nature, Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire, Water-Fire or Nature-Fire <GEM> <FIRE>

Nature-Fire: Use Gem-Fire or Water-Fire!! Second-best responders are Pure Gem, Electric-Water, Electric-Fire, Water-Earth or Earth-Fire. <GEM> <FIRE> <WATER>

Pure Fire: Use Water-Earth


NOTES

Sections in red text have been updated for the introduction of Water-Fire and Gem-Fire hybrids.
Sections in blue text were adjusted for Gem's dominance over Earth & Nature.

Dominance: Indicated inside the <POINTED BRACKETS> whenever responders have at least one element that is neutral or weak against the challenger. If no dominant element is indicated, ALL the responders' elements are strong against the challenger. E.g., against Dark-Fire, WATER, EARTH and FIRE are ALL dominant. In such cases, if you don't have a super with two dominant elements, use a corresponding rare; otherwise, select a super with just one of the dominant elements.

Selection Example: If the challenger is Glider, Daredevil or Lion, look for Electric-Fire in the Selector. Recommended responders are Electric-Earth or Earth-Fire, and EARTH is the dominant element. If you don't have Terradactyl or Magmacore, you would use Mammoth, Volcamel or Rampage. If you have neither the supers nor rares for this set of responders, you are better off going with a super EARTH like Gargolem, Griffin, Grassquatch or Sloth. Try not to use Shock Fox, Armordillo or Rhino unless the challenger is the common Glider. The dominant element is indicated so that you can pick the next best SUPER- or ULTRA-rare if you don't have the best.

Winning: Once you select your fighter and enter the battle, your odds are SET, and it won't matter which element button you use. If you don't roll a Critical, your hit will do standard damage of 25-33% from EITHER element button. If the opponent lands at least 2 weak hits (20-25% each), your animal will survive the 3rd counter-attack and get a defensive default victory. Your 4th hit ALWAYS wins, if you get one, even if you don't get a Critical.

cquinn32
09-17-14, 09:45 AM
Great work sand!!

zenobia42
09-17-14, 09:57 AM
THANKS, Sand!

Question: Let's assume that you always pick an animal that has one element that is strong vs. an opponent's element, and is also not weak to the opponent's other element. And that strong element is the one you will attack with. But you want to use a rare or super-rare to increase your odds (this is for all of us who have no ultra rares), and to do that, you must choose an animal that has 2 elements. Now, assuming your element 1 is strong, are you better off with an animal whose element 2 is both strong and weak to the opponent? Or are you better off with an element 2 that is neutral? This I have always really wondered. I tend to go with the latter - always a strong + a neutral element, assuming that that is better for defense. But I am wondering if all your studies can tell me if I'd be better off with a strong + a strong/weak element animal.

SANDSCApe
09-17-14, 11:55 AM
THANKS, Sand!

Question: Let's assume that you always pick an animal that has one element that is strong vs. an opponent's element, and is also not weak to the opponent's other element. And that strong element is the one you will attack with. But you want to use a rare or super-rare to increase your odds (this is for all of us who have no ultra rares), and to do that, you must choose an animal that has 2 elements. Now, assuming your element 1 is strong, are you better off with an animal whose element 2 is both strong and weak to the opponent? Or are you better off with an element 2 that is neutral? This I have always really wondered. I tend to go with the latter - always a strong + a neutral element, assuming that that is better for defense. But I am wondering if all your studies can tell me if I'd be better off with a strong + a strong/weak element animal.

SEE MY 09-20-2014 POST FOR WHAT I BELIEVE IS A BETTER RESPONSE THAN THE ONE BELOW.

Gosh, turn your brain off! Why do you have to ask the thinking questions? LOL -- People are gonna think we're mad.

(Assuming that you can't get the second element as strong as the first and still score high on rarity & level) whether it is better for the second element to be weak against one but strong against the other of the opponent's combo; or neutral against both is difficult to work out. But to be sure, TL has worked it out and if you're willing, you can test the questionable element and see how they flag it. Not that you actually WANT to attack with that element, but you may try it to see how it measures up.

But if you already know the strength of the second element and know you won't attack with it, then you can assess it defensively. Look to see whether the opponent is taking small chunks off your health or stomping you down to like half-way on the meter with the first counter-attack. I wouldn't sweat it. We get far more wins from Crits than we do with defensive victories.

If I had to call it from scratch, I'd agree with you and go with the neutral 2nd element rather than weak-n-strong: present no weakness to the opponent. Also consider whether you would attack YOUR animal with theirs.

I wish I kept decent defensive notes, but I've mostly been experimenting with how Dark, Electric & Gem square off against different combos. Rather annoying that the system mostly doesn't flag them at all.

zenobia42
09-17-14, 04:57 PM
Gosh, turn your brain off! Why do you have to ask the thinking questions? LOL -- People are gonna think we're mad.

(Assuming that you can't get the second element as strong as the first and still score high on rarity & level) whether it is better for the second element to be weak against one but strong against the other of the opponent's combo; or neutral against both is difficult to work out. But to be sure, TL has worked it out and if you're willing, you can test the questionable element and see how they flag it. Not that you actually WANT to attack with that element, but you may try it to see how it measures up.

But if you already know the strength of the second element and know you won't attack with it, then you can assess it defensively. Look to see whether the opponent is taking small chunks off your health or stomping you down to like half-way on the meter with the first counter-attack. I wouldn't sweat it. We get far more wins from Crits than we do with defensive victories.

If I had to call it from scratch, I'd agree with you and go with the neutral 2nd element rather than weak-n-strong: present no weakness to the opponent. Also consider whether you would attack YOUR animal with theirs.

I wish I kept decent defensive notes, but I've mostly been experimenting with how Dark, Electric & Gem square off against different combos. Rather annoying that the system mostly doesn't flag them at all.
Believe you me, sometimes I wish I could! lol

I think it's too late to avoid people thinking I am insane, but there may be hope for you. :p

As for gem animals, I know nothing at all about the attack end of those match-ups. So can you confirm: is gem is strong attack on everything but dark (or everything but dark and another gem)? Or is it only strong vs. select other elements and if so, which ones? If you didn't notice, no worries. I ask only because it is something I cannot check myself.

hugpete
09-18-14, 12:54 AM
Great guide Sand!

I do wish that someone woe make a strength/weakness table like be one for DS though. It has the element one is attacking first, then the strong, then the weak. The way that all the info on the coffin is written, it's really hard to sort through and it seems like no one lists anything strong against water. :(

Anyuszko
09-18-14, 02:43 AM
Which animals level to 15?

Actually, since your "wounded" animals heal in some minutes, and you can fight only each hour, in this game it is not necessary to lvl up to to as much animals as you can. Theoretically, it would be enough to lvl up four pieces, to have all elements in a lvl 15 animal.

For example, if you lvl up to 15 an emerald dragon, you will have an animal at lvl 15 with "gem" and "nature" element.
Add a sea drake, then "dark" and "water".
Plus an "electric" "fire", and "earth" with anything and you are ready.

But. If you use your lvl 15 against a particular enemy, it may be that one color would be strong, another weak against it. So, it would be better whether you can choose from at least two animals of yours. For example, when you are facing any opponent with fire element, a sea drake is not a very good choice, because dark is weak against fire, while water is strong.

So, what do you think, what to lvl to 15? (for next tournament....)

My thoughts:
- only super rares (or ultra rares); it is wasting your food to lvl up commons or maybe rares over 10.
- covering at least all colors once, maybe several times
- and... there may be more good thoughts.

zenobia42
09-18-14, 10:37 AM
Great guide Sand!

I do wish that someone woe make a strength/weakness table like be one for DS though. It has the element one is attacking first, then the strong, then the weak. The way that all the info on the coffin is written, it's really hard to sort through and it seems like no one lists anything strong against water. :(
Ask and ye shall receive! Made this this morning:



http://forums.storm8.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15588

SANDSCApe
09-18-14, 12:26 PM
...
As for gem animals, I know nothing at all about the attack end of those match-ups. So can you confirm: is gem is strong attack on everything but dark (or everything but dark and another gem)? Or is it only strong vs. select other elements and if so, which ones? If you didn't notice, no worries. I ask only because it is something I cannot check myself.

So far, I haven't seen Gem rated strong against ANYTHING! It rolls a Crit often enough, probably because the rarity trumps most animals.
But it has been flagged weak against Gem-Nature, Dark, Dark-Fire, Dark-Nature, Dark-Earth, Dark-Water; and unflagged (supposedly neutral) against Water-Earth, Water-Nature, and Earth-Fire. It wouldn't surprise me if the Gem attack turned out to be strong ONLY against pure Gem, while being defensively neutral to the opponent's Gem attack.
I'm still looking for opportunities to test it against other animal types, but everytime it rolls a Crit for 100% damage, that opportunity is lost. I normally use a Level 3 Emerald to test the Gem.

zenobia42
09-18-14, 12:42 PM
So far, I haven't seen Gem rated strong against ANYTHING! It rolls a Crit often enough, probably because the rarity trumps most animals.
But it has been flagged weak against Gem-Nature, Dark, Dark-Fire, Dark-Nature, Dark-Earth, Dark-Water; and unflagged (supposedly neutral) against Water-Earth, Water-Nature, and Earth-Fire. It wouldn't surprise me if the Gem attack turned out to be strong ONLY against pure Gem, while being defensively neutral to the opponent's Gem attack.
I'm still looking for opportunities to test it against other animal types, but everytime it rolls a Crit for 100% damage, that opportunity is lost. I normally use a Level 3 Emerald to test the Gem.

Oopsie, then my graphic with a giant cloud of GEM hanging over nearly everything else is wrong!

hugpete
09-19-14, 02:51 AM
Oopsie, then my graphic with a giant cloud of GEM hanging over nearly everything else is wrong!

Thanks for trying, though I have no idea how to read your chart. Here's a link to the DS chart, to show what I was talking about above. http://supremedynasty.com/apppix/dragon_type_strongweak.png

SANDSCApe
09-19-14, 10:02 AM
Thanks for trying, though I have no idea how to read your chart. Here's a link to the DS chart, to show what I was talking about above. http://supremedynasty.com/apppix/dragon_type_strongweak.png

The graphic is as easy as pie! If the element's space is directly over another, it is strong against it. If it's directly below another element, it is weak against it. White space is Gem, green is Nature, brown is Earth, yellow is Electric, blue is Water, red is Fire and purple is Dark. The entire white space at the top represents Gem; not just the little rectangle in the lower right corner.

You can make a table like the one you use for DS, but this one is CANDY for visual people!

Zenobia, I would leave the Gem in the uppermost section because while the element itself is not showing strength, the ultra rarity is giving Gem animals some measure of superiority with the net result being a significant chance of rolling a Critical Hit.

zenobia42
09-19-14, 07:19 PM
The graphic is as easy as pie! If the element's space is directly over another, it is strong against it. If it's directly below another element, it is weak against it. White space is Gem, green is Nature, brown is Earth, yellow is Electric, blue is Water, red is Fire and purple is Dark. The entire white space at the top represents Gem; not just the little rectangle in the lower right corner.

You can make a table like the one you use for DS, but this one is CANDY for visual people!

Zenobia, I would leave the Gem in the uppermost section because while the element itself is not showing strength, the ultra rarity is giving Gem animals some measure of superiority with the net result being a significant chance of rolling a Critical Hit.

That's a really good point and I had not thought of that. It is more rare than ANY opponent other than another with gem in it. I guess I'll leave it.

hugpete, I DID do a list, with every elements strength as weaknesses, as a list. I just can't figure out where that post is. I spent some time looking for it and will search some more tonight. It was in one of the battlegrounds threads, and was made like a week ago or so.

SANDSCApe
09-20-14, 12:19 AM
I've been re-examining the issue of the role of the primary/attacking element versus the secondary "unused" element when using a hybrid fighter.

I think the fact that most of our standard hits get rated "weak" or "strong" has misled us into thinking that the attack choice matters, or that the "unused" element is weighed differently from the attacking element.

I'm going to present evidence to dispel the notion that it matters which of your animal's element you use for attack. Likewise, I'm challenging the concept of a secondary or unused element.

Here are my premises:
1. Outside of the Ultimate option, there are only two ways to win -- roll a Critical Hit or land 4 standard hits for a defensive victory.
2. The chances for a Critical Hit are predetermined by your choice of fighter. Nothing you do during the battle can change those odds.
3. The chances for a defensive victory are also dependent on your choice of fighter. Nothing you do during the battle can affect how much damage the opponent is doing.

It therefore does not matter, once you have chosen your fighter and tapped the BATTLE NOW button, which of your fighter's elements you use because your attacks can only produce two results: standard damage of 25-33% or critical damage of 50-100%.

Basically, the buttons you press during battle say the following things to the system:
A. Ultimate button (purple): I don't want to roll the dice. Let me instantly do 100% damage in exchange for the stated gems. Play an extra cool destruction animation as I win.
B. First element button (blue): I want to roll the dice based on the odds set by my animal versus your animal. Play the regular attack animation for this element. If I don't roll a Critical Hit, tell me how good this element is against your fighter.
C. Second element button (blue), if your animal is a hybrid: I want to roll the dice based on the odds set by my animal versus your animal. Play the regular attack animation for this element. If I don't roll a Critical Hit, tell me how good this element is against your fighter.
The system will then faithfully obey your commands.

So it's all about the fighter selection, if you're going for the dice roll. THERE IS NO UNUSED ELEMENT! What you need to aim for with elements is what I call the Net Element Bonus (NEB). Add 1 point for each strength and minus one point for each weakness. The total will be your NEB.
If your fighter has 2 strong elements and no weak, NEB is 2.
2 strong and 1 weak is a NEB of 1.
1 strong and 1 weak is a NEB of zero.
1 strong and 2 weak is a NEB of -1.
2 weak and no strong is a NEB of -2.
Match up each of your fighter's elements against BOTH of the opponent's elements to calculate your NEB. You must determine for yourself the best way to maximize NEB, rarity and level.

SANDSCApe
09-20-14, 12:56 AM
THANKS, Sand!

Question: Let's assume that you always pick an animal that has one element that is strong vs. an opponent's element, and is also not weak to the opponent's other element. And that strong element is the one you will attack with. But you want to use a rare or super-rare to increase your odds (this is for all of us who have no ultra rares), and to do that, you must choose an animal that has 2 elements. Now, assuming your element 1 is strong, are you better off with an animal whose element 2 is both strong and weak to the opponent? Or are you better off with an element 2 that is neutral? This I have always really wondered. I tend to go with the latter - always a strong + a neutral element, assuming that that is better for defense. But I am wondering if all your studies can tell me if I'd be better off with a strong + a strong/weak element animal.

From the NEB perspective, a fighter with one element strong against the opponent and the other element both weak and strong against the opponent will get the same element score as a fighter with one element strong and the other neutral against the opponent. Both fighters will have an NEB of 1.
Fighter A: 1+1-1=1
Fighter B: 1-0=1

But make sure you're squaring off each of your elements against both of the opponent's elements. E.g., if you use Electric-Fire against a Dark-Nature, your NEB will be 2; not 1, because the Fire is strong against BOTH Dark and Nature while the Electric is neutral.

SANDSCApe
09-23-14, 01:08 PM
Which animals level to 15?

Actually, since your "wounded" animals heal in some minutes, and you can fight only each hour, in this game it is not necessary to lvl up to to as much animals as you can. Theoretically, it would be enough to lvl up four pieces, to have all elements in a lvl 15 animal.

For example, if you lvl up to 15 an emerald dragon, you will have an animal at lvl 15 with "gem" and "nature" element.
Add a sea drake, then "dark" and "water".
Plus an "electric" "fire", and "earth" with anything and you are ready.

But. If you use your lvl 15 against a particular enemy, it may be that one color would be strong, another weak against it. So, it would be better whether you can choose from at least two animals of yours. For example, when you are facing any opponent with fire element, a sea drake is not a very good choice, because dark is weak against fire, while water is strong.

So, what do you think, what to lvl to 15? (for next tournament....)

My thoughts:
- only super rares (or ultra rares); it is wasting your food to lvl up commons or maybe rares over 10.
- covering at least all colors once, maybe several times
- and... there may be more good thoughts.

There are 21 elemental challenges so far (22 if they create an Electric-Dark combo). Since some animals will present the maximum possible NEB against more than one type, it should be possible to cover all types with 5-10 animals as Anyuszko suggests.

MINIMAL SIX
Based on my insane fight charts, Emerald, Terradactyl, Nightmare, Griffin & Sloth present the best odds against 19 of the 21 current types. The two types they don't trump can be met with Magmacore and a super Electric other than Terradactyl. So all bases can be covered by a minimum of 6 animals.
(Substitute Ox or Phoenix for Nightmare. Substitute Grassquatch for Sloth)

If you don't have an Emerald, Pegasus scores the same NEB against Earth and Earth-Nature, which are the only opponent types to which I've assigned Emerald. If (like me) you don't have all of the 5 supers I've mentioned, you can certainly use other supers, but you will then have a larger group of champions. This can of course be a good thing, but involves a greater investment of food. You may also need a couple rares to substitute if you're missing key supers like me. Beagle & Daredevil have to be in my fight club since they're my only Electric rares and I have no Electric supers.

HIGH ROLLERS
As you raise your tournament cohort, keep in mind that the highest NEB any animal can score against another is 2. It won't happen for most matchups, but the following supers deliver:
Terradactyl against Electric-Water & Electric-Fire
Lion against Dark-Nature
Phoenix/Ox/Nightmare against Gem-Nature & Dark-Nature
Griffin against Dark-Fire, Earth-Fire & Fire
Grassquatch/Sloth against Electric-Earth
Magmacore against Electric-Dark, Electric-Fire & Dark-Fire
Vinotaur against Dark-Nature.

The following is a REVISED list of MVPs overall (not all among my own animals) in descending order:
A. Lion, Magmacore,
B. Phoenix, Ox, Nightmare, Vinotaur
C. Terradactyl, Pegasus, Sloth, Grassquatch
Each of these MVPs is the best pick against 5 or more elemental types.
Keep in mind that top performers may overlap each other so you don't need them all. Although Lion scores the highest NEB against 7 elemental types, Phoenix & Terradactyl cover 5 of those 7, and you may have animals that cover the other 2.

As for whether any of the animals I've mentioned actually NEED to be L15, I find L10 to be sufficient in most cases but, if you can spare the fruit, L15 could certainly add to your advantage.

zenobia42
09-23-14, 01:22 PM
GREAT list, Sand, thanks for all that work!

I agree a level 15 gold lion would be a GREAT animal to have for battles. My level 15 daredevil kicked a lot of bootie, and it's obviously just the rare version of that super rare.
My sloth also did very well. I am VERY glad I leveled him to 15 early on.
Nightmare is next on my list to get to 15.
Vinotaur I got to 15 two days ago. :)
Didn't realize that was a priority to get - thanks for the tip! I AM currently trying to get this or the Gold Lion, but with 4 elements at a time again starting tonight (took a day off unicorn futility again lol).

Quick question - so, in the absence of a water-electric super, you don't have any other water hybrids at all. Are all the other water hybrids not worth the effort of leveling then?

Anyuszko
09-23-14, 01:33 PM
I do not agree. Lion is a bad choice, at least perhaps.

I Tell you why. So Lion is am electric x fire hybrid. Electric is strong against water. Water is strong against fire. That means if you attack a water animal, electric+fire is somewhat neutral.

In case the weak color counts. Yet nobody knows the real scoring system of TL.

SANDSCApe
09-23-14, 02:04 PM
I do not agree. Lion is a bad choice, at least perhaps.

I Tell you why. So Lion is am electric x fire hybrid. Electric is strong against water. Water is strong against fire. That means if you attack a water animal, electric+fire is somewhat neutral.

In case the weak color counts. Yet nobody knows the real scoring system of TL.

All elements count. These's no other way for the system to calculate your odds, which has to be done BEFORE you even touch an attack button. After all, the system can't know which of your animal's attack button you will press, so why would it enter values for only one element and exclude the other from it's calculations? Probability is calculated from ALL possibilities.

Lion is elementally inferior to SOME Water types, but not all. In fact, it trumps the elements of 10 different opponent types; more than any other animal.

Here are the Water types against which Lion will have poor odds:
NEB of 0 (neutral) against Electric-Water
NEB of 0 (neutral) against Water
NEB of -2 against Water-Earth

But lion will score a NEB of 2 against Dark-Nature.
Lion will also score a NEB of 1 against all of the following types:
Gem-Nature
Electric-Dark
Electric-Nature
Dark
Dark-Water
Dark-Fire
Water-Nature
Nature
Nature-Fire

See? Who says the big kitty's afraid of water?

SANDSCApe
09-23-14, 02:08 PM
GREAT list, Sand, thanks for all that work!

I agree a level 15 gold lion would be a GREAT animal to have for battles. My level 15 daredevil kicked a lot of bootie, and it's obviously just the rare version of that super rare.
My sloth also did very well. I am VERY glad I leveled him to 15 early on.
Nightmare is next on my list to get to 15.
Vinotaur I got to 15 two days ago. :)
Didn't realize that was a priority to get - thanks for the tip! I AM currently trying to get this or the Gold Lion, but with 4 elements at a time again starting tonight (took a day off unicorn futility again lol).

Quick question - so, in the absence of a water-electric super, you don't have any other water hybrids at all. Are all the other water hybrids not worth the effort of leveling then?

I'll answer this one after I get the boss off the bus.

SANDSCApe
09-23-14, 03:19 PM
GREAT list, Sand, thanks for all that work!

I agree a level 15 gold lion would be a GREAT animal to have for battles. My level 15 daredevil kicked a lot of bootie, and it's obviously just the rare version of that super rare.
My sloth also did very well. I am VERY glad I leveled him to 15 early on.
Nightmare is next on my list to get to 15.
Vinotaur I got to 15 two days ago. :)
Didn't realize that was a priority to get - thanks for the tip! I AM currently trying to get this or the Gold Lion, but with 4 elements at a time again starting tonight (took a day off unicorn futility again lol).

Quick question - so, in the absence of a water-electric super, you don't have any other water hybrids at all. Are all the other water hybrids not worth the effort of leveling then?

Vinotaur is not all that essential, but he's a great go-to guy for players who may not have all the big shots. His elements trump 9 of the 21 different types; more than most attackers. But his job can be covered by other supers in that first minimal list I gave.

With Water being weak only to Electric, one would think the Water hybrids would be super powers. But Water's combination with Electric, Dark, Earth & Nature produces a balance that trumps only a few elemental types.

Electric-Water trumps Dark-Water, Dark-Fire, Water, Water-Natur & Nature-Fire, each by 1 point.
Dark-Water trumps only Gem & Gem-Nature, each by 1 point.
Water-Nature trumps Dark-Earth, Water-Earth, Earth, Earth-Nature & Earth-Fire, each by 1 point.
But Water-Earth is a powerhouse! It trumps Dark-Fire, Earth-Fire & Fire, each by 2 points and also trumps Electric-Fire & Nature by 1 point.
The Water hybrids are not to be dismissed. They just don't trump the elements of as many opponents or by as many points as do the fighters in my MVP list.
Electric-Water and Water-Earth are the most productive of the Water bunch. The super Electric-Water just isn't here yet.

Note that when I say one type trumps another it only means it is elementally superior. It doesn't mean it will win; it just has better chances. That's why I say "trumps" and not "beats."

Also, the fighters in my minimal list and MVP list are not meant to exclude others. It's just that they score more NEBs.

But my first list DOES have a Water hybrid -- Griffin! I wouldn't go far without my Water-Earth. Consider this also -- whatever you may trump with Water can also be trumped by Earth. The list is somewhat Earth-heavy but that element simply covers more ground! LOL

Earth and Fire are the only elements that trump two others. But whereas Fire is weak against two other elements, Earth is only trumped by one.

SANDSCApe
09-23-14, 04:13 PM
...
But lion will score a NEB of 2 against Dark-Nature.
Lion will also score a NEB of 1 against all of the following types:
Gem-Nature
Electric-Dark
Electric-Nature
Dark
Dark-Water
Dark-Fire
Water-Nature
Nature
Nature-Fire

See? Who says the big kitty's afraid of water?

If you question how Lion can trump Dark-Water and Water-Nature, here's the break-down:

Against Dark-Water, Electric is neutral against Dark (0) and strong against Water (+1). Fire is strong against Dark (+1) and weak against Water (-1).
Total of 0+1+1-1=1

Against Water-Nature, Electric is strong against Water (+1) and neutral against Nature (0). Fire is weak against Water (-1) and strong against Nature (+1).
Total of 1+0-1+1=1

Anyuszko
09-24-14, 03:48 AM
I still disagree. Lion is a bad choice. It is much smarter to raise an electric-earth super to 15. Electric is strong only against water. So, why would you pair electric with fire, which is makes it weak? It is much better to avoid such combinations.

Also avoid: fire-earth combo, or water-nature etc.

What I think is good:
electric-earth
dark-nature
fire-nature, fire-dark

and so

SANDSCApe
09-24-14, 07:09 AM
I still disagree. Lion is a bad choice. It is much smarter to raise an electric-earth super to 15. Electric is strong only against water. So, why would you pair electric with fire, which is makes it weak? It is much better to avoid such combinations.

Also avoid: fire-earth combo, or water-nature etc.

What I think is good:
electric-earth
dark-nature
fire-nature, fire-dark

and so

To each his own. Electric-Earth trumps eight elemental types compared to the 10 types trumped by Electric-Fire. But Terradactyl is already on my list in addition to Lion and I don't see the need for one to exclude the other.

My MINIMAL list was the least number of fighters that would trump ALL 21 elemental types.
My MVP list consisted of the fighters that scored the highest NEBs overall against the opponents they trumped.

You can take the approach of raising what you consider to be a well balanced representative of 7 elements and hope that covers it all. My exhaustive approach was to actually score every single elemental type against all 21 elemental types and compare the NEBs. That's how I generated my lists.

But you don't need to go by the numbers. That's just my own madness. I have a very calculated way of doing things. In the end, it's still only theoretical since I don't have all the animals on my own lists. That means my actual fight club will deviate considerably from my ideal and still be fine.

I'm sure yours will be fine also.

(I'm chuckling to myself because I think neither one of us has that Lion or Terradactyl ANYWAY, unless your breeding luck has returned. LOL)

Anyuszko
09-24-14, 08:14 AM
(I'm chuckling to myself because I think neither one of us has that Lion or Terradactyl ANYWAY, unless your breeding luck has returned. LOL)

Not yet. Instead, my daughter breed two electric-green supers in a week... (on Anyuszko account)

zenobia42
09-24-14, 10:57 AM
The electric supers are proving pretty darn tough for almost everyone to breed.

Personally, based on my experience in the first Arena, I do not think it matters much if your non-attack element is weak or strong. Or at least, it seems to matter a lot less than your animal's rarity and level. So my strategy is still to just to eventually get level 15 supers in every element. Granted, the results of I'd say around 48 matches are not much of a sample size for statistical purposes, plus I did not actually document each battle, but it often seemed that I'd try my highest level&rarity animal with the best pair of elements for the match and it would fail. Then I'd try a higher level or rarity, with a strong attack but weak or strong/weak second element, and win.

Plus, it's just easier to start with getting 3 supers to level 15, lol. 3( supers that cover the 6 non-ultra elements.) The tough part is breeding ANY electric super. But in the absence of one, I'm going to work on getting my sea drake to 15. Because I have fire, nature and earth covered. Getting a super from 10 to 15 costs 80,000 coins. EXCEPT the sloth, grassquatch, and vinotaur. Their 10-15 is a relatively easy to accomplish 36,800. That is why I have fire, nature and earth covered already - a sloth and a vinotaur. So to anyone out there trying to decide which one to work on first, I HIGHLY recommend you choose one of those three.

SANDSCApe
10-06-14, 09:33 AM
In case you're wondering where the Dark-Electrics fit into the Battleground pecking order, they are among my Fighter Selector picks against Pure Gem, Dark-Water, Pure Water and Water-Nature. However, they are not alone on the list of responders for any of those challengers. Chances are, they may not be a must-have in your fight club.

When Electric-Dark is the challenger, your best response will be Earth-Fire. No Magma? Let Camel or Ram step up. Even Dillo can manage against the common or rare. Alternately, call on any super Earth or Fire hybrid. You won't have to fight these dark zappers until a new tournament or battle region opens. But be ready!

________________________________________
We may even get a sneak peek of the Dark-Electric super-rare. Even though it has not yet been released, it show up among the challengers during the Owl-Bear Tournament!

SANDSCApe
10-07-14, 12:02 PM
UNIVERSAL FIGHTER SELECTOR
Search for the line that begins with the challenger's elemental Type, then select the highest rarity and level you have from the recommended responder types. Elements matter more than rarity. Rarity matters more than level.
See the bottom of the post for notes that may help you use the Selector.

Pure Gem: Use Electric-Dark, Dark-Water or Dark-Fire. <DARK>

Gem-Nature: Use Dark-Fire

Pure Electric: Use Electric-Earth, Dark-Earth, Earth-Nature or Earth-Fire <EARTH>

Electric-Dark: Use Earth-Fire

Electric-Water: Use Electric-Earth

Electric-Earth: Use Gem-Nature or Earth-Nature

Electric-Nature: Use Pure Gem, Gem-Nature, Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire, Earth-Fire or Nature-Fire <GEM> <FIRE>

Electric-Fire: Use Electric-Earth or Earth-Fire <EARTH>

Pure Dark: Use Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire, Earth-Fire, or Nature-Fire <FIRE>

Dark-Water: Use Electric-Dark, Electric-Water, Electric-Earth. Electric-Nature or Electric-Fire <ELECTRIC>

Dark-Earth: Use Gem-Nature, Dark-Nature, Water-Nature, Earth-Nature or Nature-Fire. <NATURE>

Dark-Nature: Use Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire or Nature-Fire <FIRE>

Dark-Fire: Use Water-Earth or Earth-Fire

Pure Water: Use Electric-Dark, Electric-Water, Electric-Earth or Electric-Nature <ELECTRIC>

Water-Earth: Use Gem-Nature. Second-best responders are Electric-Nature, Dark-Nature, Water-Nature or Earth-Nature <GEM> <NATURE>

Water-Nature: use Pure Gem, Gem-Nature, Electric-Dark, Electric-Water, Electric-Nature or Electric-Fire. <GEM> <ELECTRIC>

Pure Earth: Use Gem-Nature. Second-best responders are Pure Gem, Dark-Nature, Water-Nature or Earth-Nature. <GEM> <NATURE>

Earth-Nature: Use Gem-Nature! Second-best responder is Pure Gem. Third-best responders are Dark-Nature, Water-Nature or Nature-Fire <GEM> <NATURE>

Earth-Fire: Use Water-Earth

Pure Nature: Use Pure Gem, Gem-Nature, Electric-Fire, Dark-Fire or Nature-Fire <GEM> <FIRE>

Nature-Fire: Use Pure Gem, Electric-Water, Electric-Fire, Water-Earth or Earth-Fire. <GEM> <FIRE> <WATER>

Pure Fire: Use Water-Earth


NOTES

Sections in blue text were adjusted for Gem's dominance over Earth & Nature.

Dominance: Indicated inside the <POINTED BRACKETS> whenever responders have at least one element that is neutral or weak against the challenger. If no dominant element is indicated, ALL the responders' elements are strong against the challenger. E.g., against Dark-Fire, WATER, EARTH and FIRE are ALL dominant. In such cases, if you don't have a super with two dominant elements, use a corresponding rare; otherwise, select a super with just one of the dominant elements.

Selection Example: If the challenger is Glider, Daredevil or Lion, look for Electric-Fire in the Selector. Recommended responders are Electric-Earth or Earth-Fire, and EARTH is the dominant element. If you don't have Terradactyl or Magmacore, you would use Mammoth, Volcamel or Rampage. If you have neither the supers nor rares for this set of responders, you are better off going with a super EARTH like Gargolem, Griffin, Grassquatch or Sloth. Try not to use Shock Fox, Armordillo or Rhino unless the challenger is the common Glider. The dominant element is indicated so that you can pick a second-best super if needed.

Winning: Once you select your fighter and enter the battle, your odds are SET, and it won't matter which element button you use. If you don't roll a Critical, your hit will do standard damage of 25-33% from EITHER element button. If the opponent lands at least 2 weak hits (20-25% each), your animal will survive the 3rd counter-attack and get a defensive default victory. Your 4th hit ALWAYS wins, if you get one, even if you don't get a Critical.

SANDSCApe
10-12-14, 11:41 AM
In light of recent discoveries, I tested all the elements against the Unicorn in Round 28 of the Owl Bear Tournament. I also tested Unicorn against a quarter of the Terrorier Battleground to observe the ratings of the Gem element against a variety of hybrids and pure elements. I can now confirm that Gem has dominance over two other elements.

Gem is strong against Nature
Gem is strong against Earth
Gem is weak against Dark

The Universal Fighter Selector has been edited to reflect the newfound relationships when Gem animals square off against animals with the Earth and/or Nature elements.

New Highs & Lows
A NEB of 3 (or -3) is now possible when Gem-Nature fights Earth-Nature. The Emerald Dragon is now a super-power! It stacks better odds against Sloth, Grassquatch, Hedgehog, Bamboon & Plantlers than any fighter does against any other opponent. Don't send your trusty Sloth out to meet this lambasting lizard.

Thanks to PeterPan for posting the strong-rated attack of his Unicorn against the Bamboon.

__________________________________

CHANGES RESULTING FROM GEM's DOMINANCE OVER EARTH & NATURE
The changes have removed Dark-Earth & Dark-Nature from the best responders to Pure Gem.
Gem animals have simply been added to the best responders for Electric-Earth, Electric-Nature, Dark-Earth, Water-Nature, Pure Nature & Nature-Fire. Their only superiority on those lists lie in their rarity.
Gem-Nature has REPLACED the best responders to Water-Earth & Pure Earth; both Gem-Nature & Gem are now the best and second-best responders to Earth-Nature. Due to the exclusive nature of the Gem animals (no alternates; no corresponding supers or rares; beastly breeding barriers), second-best or third-best responders are listed for Water-Earth, Pure Earth & Earth-Nature.

otgland
10-14-14, 08:04 PM
Great info! I am new to this game and find it difficult to battle - because I don't know what I am battling until I select my fighter. Am I doing something wrong? If not, how do you overcome the randomness of the opponent selected for you?

zenobia42
10-14-14, 09:02 PM
I made a new graphic, based on the new new gem > earth, gem > nature rules:
http://forums.storm8.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16017&d=1413342156
As with my previous graphics, an element is strong to the element(s) it is over and weak to the one(s) it is under.

This time I tried to ensure the only elements that appear more than once are the ones at the top and the bottom. Fire for example is only shown once, but the chart shows which 2 it beats and which 2 it loses to.

zenobia42
10-14-14, 09:08 PM
Great info! I am new to this game and find it difficult to battle - because I don't know what I am battling until I select my fighter. Am I doing something wrong? If not, how do you overcome the randomness of the opponent selected for you?

You can find out which opponent will come next by looking it up in the old threads about each battlegrounds as they were added.

SANDSCApe
11-02-14, 01:48 AM
The Universal Fighter Selector (Post #6 on page 1) is being updated to reflect the introduction of Water-Fire and Gem- Fire hybrids.
For now, I've only added Water-Fire and Gem-Fire as challengers, showing you the best responders from your fight club. I will soon edit all challengers that have significant weakness against these new types, so you'll know when to break out your newly acquired Steamtrunk!

Lesimony
11-13-14, 06:42 PM
This is such a great thread. I really wish a Mod would sticky it or move it to the Game Guides section.

readysetgo888
11-13-14, 07:05 PM
This is such a great thread. I really wish a Mod would sticky it or move it to the Game Guides section.

I totally agree, this thread is awesome, especially for tournaments.

readysetgo888
11-13-14, 07:42 PM
Choosing a Fighter

I apologize if anyone has already done this but I wanted to write a quick post giving concrete examples of how the Net Element Bonus stuff works.

This is the initial explanation:
What you need to aim for with elements is what I call the Net Element Bonus (NEB). Add 1 point for each strength and minus one point for each weakness. The total will be your NEB.
If your fighter has 2 strong elements and no weak, NEB is 2.
2 strong and 1 weak is a NEB of 1.
1 strong and 1 weak is a NEB of zero.
1 strong and 2 weak is a NEB of -1.
2 weak and no strong is a NEB of -2.
Match up each of your fighter's elements against BOTH of the opponent's elements to calculate your NEB. You must determine for yourself the best way to maximize NEB, rarity and level.

Examples:

You have to make four comparisons.
Your fighter's element 1 against opponent's element 1.
Your fighter's element 2 against opponent's element 1.
Your fighter's element 1 against opponent's element 2.
Your fighter's element 2 against opponent's element 2.

If your fighter has 2 strong elements and no weak, NEB is 2. =

I will use Electric-Earth as the example opponent. In this case, Earth-Nature is the best choice:

Your fighter's element 1 (Earth) against opponent's element 1 (Electric) +1 (strong)
Your fighter's element 2 (Nature) against opponent's element 1 (Electric) 0 (neutral)
Your fighter's element 1 (Earth) against opponent's element 2 (Earth) 0 (neutral)
Your fighter's element 2 (Nature) against opponent's element 2 (Earth) +1 (strong)
= Total of 2

Earth is strong to Electric, and Nature is strong to Earth, so in this example, the ideal fighter would be Earth-Nature. +1 for Earth over Electric and +1 for Nature over Earth. To determine if there is any weakness, you need to look at how each element stacks up against the second element. So in this example, you must look at how Earth is to Earth, and how Nature is to Electric. In this case, they are both neutral to each other so you would lose no points for having any weakness.

2 strong and 1 weak is a NEB of 1. =

Not all opponents have a "perfect" fighter. For example, Water-Nature. Electric is strong over Water, and Fire is strong over Nature, BUT if you choose to use Electric-Fire, there is a hidden weakness as Fire is weak to Water. So, you get +1 for your Electric over their Water, and +1 for your Fire over their Nature, but -1 for the their Water over your Fire.

Your fighter's element 1 (Electric) against opponent's element 1 (Water) +1 (strong)
Your fighter's element 2 (Fire) against opponent's element 1 (Water) -1 (weak)
Your fighter's element 1 (Electric) against opponent's element 2 (Nature) 0 (neutral)
Your fighter's element 2 (Fire) against opponent's element 2 (Nature) +1 (strong)
=1

Note how this works exactly the same as if you choose a fighter that is strong to one of the elements and neutral to the other. In the case of Water-Nature opponent, if you choose Electric-Nature, you get +1 for Electric over Water, but 0 for the neutral Electric to Nature, Nature to Nature, and Nature to Water:

Your fighter's element 1 (Electric) against opponent's element 1 (Water) +1 strong
Your fighter's element 2 (Nature) against opponent's element 1 (Water) 0 neutral
Your fighter's element 1 (Electric) against opponent's element 2 (Nature) 0 neutral
Your fighter's element 2 (Nature) against opponent's element 2 (Nature) 0 neutral
=1

You can figure this out for any opponent and any fighter you choose. Of course, you can just use the super helpful fighter selector too... These examples might just be helpful if you're trying to understand WHY a certain fighter is recommended, or possibly be able to choose one for yourself when you don't feel like looking at the chart first (This is me.... I'm lazy and I don't like having to look at the chart every time...)

(If I made any mistakes in this post please let me know! I think I got it right but it doesn't hurt to double check)

readysetgo888
11-13-14, 07:53 PM
This is a text version of the helpful graphic:

FIRE
Strong attacks on: Nature, Dark
Neutral to: Electric, Earth, Gem
Weak to: Water

NATURE
Strong attacks on: Earth
Neutral to: Electric, Water, Dark
Weak to: Fire, Gem

EARTH
Strong attacks on: Electric
Neutral to: Fire, Dark, Water
Weak to: Nature, Gem

WATER
Strong attacks on: Fire
Neutral to: Nature, Earth, Dark, Gem
Weak to: Electric

DARK
Strong attacks on: Gem
Neutral to: Nature, Earth, Water, Electric
Weak to: Fire

ELECTRIC
Strong attacks on: Water
Neutral to: Nature, Fire, Gem, Dark
Weak to: Earth

GEM
Strong attacks on: Earth, Nature
Neutral to: Electric, Fire, Water
Weak to: Dark
(However because all Gem animals are ultra rare, this gives them a boost even if they are neutral... I think...).

Again please correct me if this isn't right!

SANDSCApe
11-14-14, 12:51 AM
ReadySetGo, you've done a WONDERFUL job of breaking down the steps of how to calculate the NEBs, which are the basis of the Universal Fighter Selector. If you ever happen to spot any errors in the Selector, please let me know.

I'm sure Zenobia will give a stamp of approval also on your breakdown of her element dominance graphic, which was a handy reference to keep me straight when I did the first calculations to create the Selector. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses by heart is so helpful, especially if one wants to calculate a NEB on the fly without referring to a chart. The color graphic is an easy reminder that eventually helps one to memorize it all.

Again, thank you so much for further clarifying the charts and methods. You are truly a battle guru!

zenobia42
11-14-14, 09:21 AM
Great explanation, readysetgo888 - the way you put it is so clear!

zenobia42
11-14-14, 11:04 AM
Just musing here, but I wonder which, if any, of the 3 factors we think determine our odds for winning a battle are weighed the most heavily. (The 3 factors being relative rarity, level, and elemental strength.) Because in the vast majority of our battles, we don't have an animal that is the best that can be hoped for in all 3 categories. Most battles, we have to decide, do we go with the one that is the most rare animal we have even if it is a lower level? Or do we use a level 15 even though it is overall neutral elementally? Or do we use the one that is 2x strong, but only rare? Etc. We almost never have in 1 animal the best of all 3 factors. And I myself don't always go for the same choice. Sometimes I pick the 1x strong ultra, but the next time I might go with the 2x strong super. Sometimes I try the level 15 rare but others the level 10 super rare. Sometimes I'll go with the level 9 ultra and others the level 15 super. Etc. But it would be nice if we could together try to figure out which is the better choice in those situations, to rank the 3 aspects of battle in importance. And to determine for example how many levels is equivalent to 1 better rarity.

This has been on my mind since the current tournament started. The number of losses suffered in the very early rounds, to level 1-9 opponents, to me would seem to indicate that level is not the most important of the 3 factors. Maybe the least important, or at least tied for least important. Especially since we are talking about level 15s losing to level 1s sometimes. Obviously, even with a level 15 ultra that is 2x strong, you will sometimes lose to a level 1 common. Luck in these battles is more of a factor than anything else. But we can't do anything about luck. And we can't always have the perfect animal to battle with. All we can do is try to maximize our odds.

What would be really cool is if we came up with a ranked list everyone could go down until they found an animal they have that fits the bill. If 1 increase in rarity > NEB 1 > 6 levels, the list would be something like:
L10-15 ultra rare with NEB 2
L10-15 ultra rare with NEB 1
L10-15 super rare with NEB 2
L10-15 super rare with NEB 1
L4-9 ultra rare with NEB 2
L4-9 ultra rare with NEB 1
L4-9 super rare with NEB 2
L4-9 super rare with NEB 1
L10-15 common with NEB 2
L10-15 common with NEB 1
etc.
or whatever. Just throwing something up there to show one format I think would helpful.

What are everyone's thoughts? Is it even possible to take a stab at a list like this? How many levels do we think are equivalent to 1 increase in rarity? And is that equivalent to a NEB difference of 1? Or 2? If that detailed a list is not possible, maybe we can at least try to determine the weight of each of the 3 factors. Is the rarity / level / strength weight ratio 50/20/30?... 40/20/40?... 33/33/33?

saucysammis
11-14-14, 11:36 AM
There are 21 elemental challenges so far (22 if they create an Electric-Dark combo). Since some animals will present the maximum possible NEB against more than one type, it should be possible to cover all types with 5-10 animals as Anyuszko suggests.

MINIMAL SIX
Based on my insane fight charts, Emerald, Terradactyl, Nightmare, Griffin & Sloth present the best odds against 19 of the 21 current types. The two types they don't trump can be met with Magmacore and a super Electric other than Terradactyl. So all bases can be covered by a minimum of 6 animals.
(Substitute Ox or Phoenix for Nightmare. Substitute Grassquatch for Sloth)

If you don't have an Emerald, Pegasus scores the same NEB against Earth and Earth-Nature, which are the only opponent types to which I've assigned Emerald. If (like me) you don't have all of the 5 supers I've mentioned, you can certainly use other supers, but you will then have a larger group of champions. This can of course be a good thing, but involves a greater investment of food. You may also need a couple rares to substitute if you're missing key supers like me. Beagle & Daredevil have to be in my fight club since they're my only Electric rares and I have no Electric supers.

HIGH ROLLERS
As you raise your tournament cohort, keep in mind that the highest NEB any animal can score against another is 2. It won't happen for most matchups, but the following supers deliver:
Terradactyl against Electric-Water & Electric-Fire
Lion against Dark-Nature
Phoenix/Ox/Nightmare against Gem-Nature & Dark-Nature
Griffin against Dark-Fire, Earth-Fire & Fire
Grassquatch/Sloth against Electric-Earth
Magmacore against Electric-Dark, Electric-Fire & Dark-Fire
Vinotaur against Dark-Nature.

The following is a REVISED list of MVPs overall (not all among my own animals) in descending order:
A. Lion, Magmacore,
B. Phoenix, Ox, Nightmare, Vinotaur
C. Terradactyl, Pegasus, Sloth, Grassquatch
Each of these MVPs is the best pick against 5 or more elemental types.
Keep in mind that top performers may overlap each other so you don't need them all. Although Lion scores the highest NEB against 7 elemental types, Phoenix & Terradactyl cover 5 of those 7, and you may have animals that cover the other 2.

As for whether any of the animals I've mentioned actually NEED to be L15, I find L10 to be sufficient in most cases but, if you can spare the fruit, L15 could certainly add to your advantage.

I am so grateful for this analysis! I do have to put in a good word for my friends, the level 15's of the lowly single element Pyro Pony, Pandaffodil, Rhino, Frostfang, Lightening Leopard, and Skyger. They are relatively inexpensive to level to 15. I leveled them all up there first. They are awesome in battles where the rare and super rare have failed....even before they were strong!

It was my strategy to do that first, then gradually move others similar to your awesome 6 fighters up to lvl 10, then higher. Vinnie is at 15 now, others above 10 and now the rest of the gang slowly coming along.

(Slightly off topic, but having at least one battle ready of each animal, and hoping for expansions like everyone else, maybe eventually I'll be able to get and keep a lvl 1 baby for each one just for laughs.)

readysetgo888
11-14-14, 05:44 PM
Zenobia I really would love to figure this out too... Unfortunately I don't know if we'll really be able to until the next battleground levels are released.

Just based on my brief anecdotal experience, I believe that having x2 strong element super rare, at any level above 10, is the best choice. It seems to work better than a super rare or ultra rare with a slightly higher level than is only x1 strong.

In the last tournament, I tried using level 9 super rares and they seemed to always lose. At level 10, they seem to win much more frequently. I don't have any at level 15, so I can't say if there is a big jump there, or if level 9 to 10 has a much bigger impact than level 14 to 15 would have. We need people that have level 15 super rares to collect data to go against my level 10 ones.

Maybe when the next tournament starts, we could get some people together that are willing to experiment and share what happens every single round. I'd be up for that. I'm curious to see if we can get it fully figured out.

zenobia42
11-14-14, 09:52 PM
Zenobia I really would love to figure this out too... Unfortunately I don't know if we'll really be able to until the next battleground levels are released.

Just based on my brief anecdotal experience, I believe that having x2 strong element super rare, at any level above 10, is the best choice. It seems to work better than a super rare or ultra rare with a slightly higher level than is only x1 strong.

In the last tournament, I tried using level 9 super rares and they seemed to always lose. At level 10, they seem to win much more frequently. I don't have any at level 15, so I can't say if there is a big jump there, or if level 9 to 10 has a much bigger impact than level 14 to 15 would have. We need people that have level 15 super rares to collect data to go against my level 10 ones.

Maybe when the next tournament starts, we could get some people together that are willing to experiment and share what happens every single round. I'd be up for that. I'm curious to see if we can get it fully figured out.

Yeah, it will be hard to figure out but I think we can if we put our collective minds to it. :)

I am more than a tiny bit insane and a symptom of my insanity is that I have a FFS spreadsheet. And one of the tabs I have is a list of every type of opponent and in it I scored each of my animals that I would consider using against it. As my score, I give +1 for an NEB of +1 or for NEB 0 but the animal is ultra rare vs. super rare. I give a score of 2 for either NEB +2 or NEB +1 & it's ultra rare vs. super rare... etc. I then figured out which animals are the best score for that opponent. The score for the "best" animals ranges from 0 (vs. gem and gem-fire) to 4 (gem-nature vs. earth-nature). In most cases, there are animals with a score of 2 that are ranked the "best." Then I went and counted how many animals each is best against (e.g. if we are talking about what beats earth-fire, the 2 types that have a score of 2 vs. earth-fire get counted as beating all 7 animals that are earth - fire hybrids).

Anyway, long story short, I've been using my scorecard to determine which animals it is best for me to level to 15 next. It is very similar to Sand's lists of the top animals to level. But mine takes into account which ones of my animals I've already leveled to 15 and therefore all the opponents that my 15 has the top score on, I filter out of the list because I don't need to address that animal any more. There may be some animals that would be top-scorers if I leveled them to 15, but if I already have a 15 with an equal score vs. that opponent it has a top score on, it's moot. So every time I level an animal to 15 for strategic reasons (I also level some to 15 for purely aesthetic reasons lol)... then opponents get filtered out of my sheet as having been taken care of.

I am now down to 2 animals that are top priority for me to level. #1 my unicorn and #2 an earth-fire - I'm going to choose the Skeletal Dragon of the 3 earth-fire supers because I think it looks cool and is in a habitat that won't fill to quickly with the extra income. Once I have those at level 15, my battlegrounds team will be complete. The only animal that is better than any on my team once I complete it is the emerald which I don't have. There are some cases where the emerald has a score 1 better than someone on my team and in those cases, the scores of the guys on my team are 2 or 3 so they'll obviously be more than fine as a team without an emerald which I can't seem to get. Also, the ruby is 1 stronger in some cases but again, the fighters I have have a score of at least 2 which is great so I'm not worried about leveling it yet.

Anyway, I'm nuts, I know. But happy with my team. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this particular team to anyone, because it is based on my going with my gut & what was cheap early on, then filling the gaps those didn't cover. My team of fighting 15s by the time of the next tournament will be: Vinotaur, Ancient Sloth, Nightmare, Terradactyl, Unicorn and Skeletal Dragon. Maybe I'll get a ruby to 15 later but maybe not - ultras take a LOT of food to go from 10-15 (120,500)!

So I'm rambling again. I just put my unicorn in the flower so stop by after 36 hours and see her beautiful epic form! She is a BEAST - best or at least a score of 2 vs. 25 animals. :D

SANDSCApe
11-16-14, 11:45 PM
Just musing here, but I wonder which, if any, of the 3 factors we think determine our odds for winning a battle are weighed the most heavily. (The 3 factors being relative rarity, level, and elemental strength.) Because in the vast majority of our battles, we don't have an animal that is the best that can be hoped for in all 3 categories. Most battles, we have to decide, do we go with the one that is the most rare animal we have even if it is a lower level? Or do we use a level 15 even though it is overall neutral elementally? Or do we use the one that is 2x strong, but only rare? Etc. We almost never have in 1 animal the best of all 3 factors. And I myself don't always go for the same choice. Sometimes I pick the 1x strong ultra, but the next time I might go with the 2x strong super. Sometimes I try the level 15 rare but others the level 10 super rare. Sometimes I'll go with the level 9 ultra and others the level 15 super. Etc. But it would be nice if we could together try to figure out which is the better choice in those situations, to rank the 3 aspects of battle in importance. And to determine for example how many levels is equivalent to 1 better rarity.

This has been on my mind since the current tournament started. The number of losses suffered in the very early rounds, to level 1-9 opponents, to me would seem to indicate that level is not the most important of the 3 factors. Maybe the least important, or at least tied for least important. Especially since we are talking about level 15s losing to level 1s sometimes. Obviously, even with a level 15 ultra that is 2x strong, you will sometimes lose to a level 1 common. Luck in these battles is more of a factor than anything else. But we can't do anything about luck. And we can't always have the perfect animal to battle with. All we can do is try to maximize our odds.

What would be really cool is if we came up with a ranked list everyone could go down until they found an animal they have that fits the bill. If 1 increase in rarity > NEB 1 > 6 levels, the list would be something like:
L10-15 ultra rare with NEB 2
L10-15 ultra rare with NEB 1
L10-15 super rare with NEB 2
L10-15 super rare with NEB 1
L4-9 ultra rare with NEB 2
L4-9 ultra rare with NEB 1
L4-9 super rare with NEB 2
L4-9 super rare with NEB 1
L10-15 common with NEB 2
L10-15 common with NEB 1
etc.
or whatever. Just throwing something up there to show one format I think would helpful.

What are everyone's thoughts? Is it even possible to take a stab at a list like this? How many levels do we think are equivalent to 1 increase in rarity? And is that equivalent to a NEB difference of 1? Or 2? If that detailed a list is not possible, maybe we can at least try to determine the weight of each of the 3 factors. Is the rarity / level / strength weight ratio 50/20/30?... 40/20/40?... 33/33/33?

Gosh, that's a tall order. Not much point in trying to guess the value details. What you really need is a calculator if you want to go beyond NEB calculation and the general rule that NEB gets more weight than rarity, which gets more weight than level. But a calculator can only be programmed if you have the actual score grids (points assigned to the different ranges of each criteria) and the odds table (specific odds mapped to each range of aggregate scores). Knowing the system without having the numbers will only get us so far.

Try contacting Sylvandyr in that ...(ahem!)... that other place. If anyone can, that's your man.

Another approach is to simply assume (and I do) that the same grids and maps are being used for DS and FFS battles. The fact that TL changes them from time to time makes such an assumption a bit shaky, but it may not be too far off.

readysetgo888
12-02-14, 05:15 PM
BUMP! For new players to read during the new tournament.

Vodelle
12-02-14, 05:50 PM
Oh my. Very enlightening. Thanks to SANDSCApe and those who put the post together, and readysetgo888 for bumping it. (:

Vodelle
12-03-14, 08:45 AM
Okay, call me dumb, but the guide has a lot of mentions of water-fires. Water-fire isn't an actual thing, though, right, because then that's just the dark element? So...

zenobia42
12-03-14, 09:15 AM
Okay, call me dumb, but the guide has a lot of mentions of water-fires. Water-fire isn't an actual thing, though, right, because then that's just the dark element? So...

There was a flash tournament a while ago and the prize was a water-fire creature, the Steam Trunk. There may never be another water-fire but there is one. It is not breedable but it can be used in battles.

ETA: The Steam Trunk in not breedable now, but they did make it breedable until 24 hours after they released the Ruby Razorback. And Steam Trunk + Unicorn = Ruby 100% of the time. That is why you might notice a number of parks have a plethora of Rubies.

Vodelle
12-03-14, 09:23 AM
There was a flash tournament a while ago and the prize was a water-fire creature, the Steam Trunk. There may never be another water-fire but there is one. It is not breedable but it can be used in battles.

ETA: The Steam Trunk in not breedable now, but they did make it breedable until 24 hours after they released the Ruby Razorback. And Steam Trunk + Unicorn = Ruby 100% of the time. That is why you might notice a number of parks have a plethora of Rubies.
Ooh, gotcha. I just skimmed through the shop and noticed no water-fire (since that's usually dark) but forgot about the limiteds. It'd be a cool element combo to release again.

readysetgo888
12-03-14, 09:25 AM
There was a flash tournament a while ago and the prize was a water-fire creature, the Steam Trunk. There may never be another water-fire but there is one. It is not breedable but it can be used in battles.

ETA: The Steam Trunk in not breedable now, but they did make it breedable until 24 hours after they released the Ruby Razorback. And Steam Trunk + Unicorn = Ruby 100% of the time. That is why you might notice a number of parks have a plethora of Rubies.

I'm really glad I got the Steam Trunk... it is so much cooler than any of the other tournament prizes. Like this Treebra, another Earth-Nature super rare, whooooo. LOL. I hope they do another Water-Fire animal tournament sometime soon so that those who missed out will have another chance.

I'm sad I missed getting a Ruby Pig with it though :mad: Couldn't get it through evolution fast enough and didn't realize the opportunity would be so limited.

Brambles2
12-23-14, 03:07 PM
I'd be *really* grateful if Sand has time to update this incredibly useful info sheet with Gem/Electric, Toucan & Christmas animals as both our fighters & opponents. I realise we haven't had recent battlegrounds so perhaps we need to post our weak/ strong results per element, through this tournament.
Perhaps it can then, once again, be included on first page of each new tournament.

zenobia42
12-23-14, 08:29 PM
Okay, Xmas in battle!

I tried once, and the Xmas attack vs. nature-fire was neutral.

Once we get enough info to determine it's precise relationships, I will add it to my once elegantly-simple and now increasingly complex graphic.

readysetgo888
02-06-15, 12:11 PM
18145

I just started testing the new Tree of Life in the battlegrounds - so far:

Neutral to treasure animal
Weak to water-nature animal
Neutral to earth-nature
Neutral to earth-fire
Strong to dark-nature
Strong to gem-fire
Strong to dark-earth
Strong to dark-fire
Strong to gem-electric
Weak to water-earth

zenobia42
02-10-15, 09:25 AM
Based on those battle results, I agree with your assessment that

living wood is
> gem & dark
< water
= fire, nature, earth, treasure

It is either strong or neutral to electric.

We have no data on it vs. Valentine or Xmas.

zenobia42
02-10-15, 09:26 AM
Okay, it just so happens I have the thunder mammoth up in my battlegrounds!

It is neutral to electric. So:

living wood is
> gem & dark
< water
= fire, nature, earth, electric, treasure

We have no data on it vs. Valentine or Xmas.

zenobia42
02-10-15, 09:29 AM
I am experimenting with my Smitten Kitten to deduce the Valentine element's strength & weaknesses.

VALENTINE ELEMENT
vs. earth-nature (werewolf), it was neutral. Also, it was positively adorable. It's "attack" is a little kitten pounce and a lick, and a big heart appearing.
vs. electric-earth (thunder mammoth), it was weak.
vs. dark-earth (scarecrow), it was neutral.
vs. electric-dark it was weak.
vs. electric-earth I got a crit / kill the first attack so I don't know.
vs. water-fire (steamtrunk), it was strong.
vs. electric-fire (gold lion), it was weak.


I will just keep updating this post with individual results. Then I'll make a new post with final deductions.
After 1 battle, it is either A) weak v. earth; strong v. nature <or> B) neutral v. nature & earth.
After 2 battles it is either A) weak v. earth; strong v. nature, neutral v. electric <or> B) neutral v. nature & earth; weak v. electric.
After 3 battles it is either A) weak v. earth; strong v. nature & dark; neutral v. electric <or> B) neutral v. nature & earth & dark; weak v. electric.
After 4 battles, A) is eliminated as an option. It cannot be strong v. dark because it was overall weak to the Zapra.
After 6 battles, it is strong vs. water and/or fire; neutral v. nature & earth & dark; weak v. electric.
After 7 battles, it is not strong vs. fire because it was overall weak to electric-fire. Therefore, since it was also strong vs. water-fire, it must be strong to water and neutral to fire.

So Valentine is
< electric
= fire, nature, earth, dark
> water
??? gem, treasure, Xmas, living wood.

zenobia42
02-11-15, 01:42 PM
A few conclusions have been reached. Valentine element is:

< electric
= fire, nature, earth, dark
> water

??? gem, treasure, Xmas, living wood.

ninasidstorm8
02-11-15, 01:45 PM
A few conclusions have been reached. Valentine element is:

< electric
= fire, nature, earth, dark
> water

??? gem, treasure, Xmas, living wood.

Thanks for the information.

cocauina
02-21-15, 01:26 PM
A few conclusions have been reached. Valentine element is:

< electric
= fire, nature, earth, dark
> water

??? gem, treasure, Xmas, living wood.

Valentine attack is neutral to Treasure.

zenobia42
02-23-15, 01:44 PM
Valentine attack is neutral to Treasure.

Thanks for that! So Valentine element is:
< electric
= fire, nature, earth, dark, treasure
> water
??? gem, Xmas, living wood.

zenobia42
03-03-15, 01:01 PM
Did anyone ever try Valentine vs. gem, Xmas or living wood? Well, vs. Xmas or living wood may not be possible. But did anyone try it vs. gem? I'd really like to add the Valentine element to my graphic before the current tournament ends. Thanks. If I get to a gem animal and feel like I'm progressing through the tournament fine at that point, I'll try it.

zenobia42
03-03-15, 01:57 PM
I spoke too soon! We CAN find out if Valentine is strong, neutral or weak to Xmas! Toy Poodle, round 8, current arena. Hopefully someone tries, gets a > = or <, then a crit. :)

zenobia42
03-04-15, 09:13 AM
Thanks to many folks testing it vs. the Toy Poodle in the current arena, we now know that Valentine element is:
< electric
= fire, nature, earth, dark, treasure, Xmas
> water
??? gem, living wood.

zenobia42
03-04-15, 08:07 PM
I tried my level 15 Matripony against the round 22 Ruby Razorback. Valentine element was neutral on each of the three hits. [from the current arena thread]

SO ... the only relationship among the elements we have in the game now that we don't know are valentine-living wood, and living wood-Xmas. Darnit - I didn't realize until now we didn't have the latter. If anyone hasn't gotten to the Poodle yet his tourney, and has a Treent, please try it for us. :)

zenobia42
03-05-15, 09:54 AM
I actually used the Treent, first 2 hits were normal, 3rd hit was critical.

living wood is
> gem & dark
< water
= fire, nature, earth, electric, treasure, Xmas

So now the only thing we don't know about all the current elements is living wood vs. Valentine.

zenobia42
03-10-15, 05:21 PM
Okay, new element! Shamrock. When I get one, I'll try it out in the Blizard battlegrounds I left unfinished for just such a thing.

cocauina
03-10-15, 08:07 PM
I know there's an image with the elements for the battles, but honestly I cannot understand that image, I only see words and rectangles, I cannot understand the order for strong and weaks attatcks from each element..

I know the strongs and weak attacks for every element, except for the Xmas element, I know that Xmas is strong against treasure and water(?), but I don't know what are the weakness of the Xmas element.. If the person who answer me have a couple minutes, I will ask you to do something like it's already in this thread (done bye zenobia42), but for every element, don't need to include the neutral elements from the attacks, since it's easy to know when we already have the strong and weak attacks, something like this:

living wood is
> gem & dark
< water
= fire, nature, earth, electric, treasure, Xmas

Thank you for answering me :)

zenobia42
03-10-15, 08:09 PM
So this is what I've been doing all evening. As with the color block graphics, above=strong to, below=weak. But in this one you follow the lines. Only ones connected by lines have a strong/weak relationship.

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s586/zenobia42/FFS/battle_pictographic1_zpsjwe6sz7l.jpg

I know left-brained folks prefer the text and lists. But there are also a lot of right-brained folks in out community who understand better with graphics and colors, and have relied on the color block graphics instead of text lists. So for the right-brained folks, is this better than the color blocks? I hope?

zenobia42
03-10-15, 08:11 PM
I know there's an image with the elements for the battles, but honestly I cannot understand that image, I only see words and rectangles, I cannot understand the order for strong and weaks attatcks from each element..

I know the strongs and weak attacks for every element, except for the Xmas element, I know that Xmas is strong against treasure and water(?), but I don't know what are the weakness of the Xmas element.. If the person who answer me have a couple minutes, I will ask you to do something like it's already in this thread (done bye zenobia42), but for every element, don't need to include the neutral elements from the attacks, since it's easy to know when we already have the strong and weak attacks, something like this:

living wood is
> gem & dark
< water
= fire, nature, earth, electric, treasure, Xmas

Thank you for answering me :)

I spent the early evening working on something for right-brained people. It's only fair I do the same for you left-brain types before bed, so I will work on it now!

Vodelle
03-10-15, 08:13 PM
****, that looks so swanky, zen! I am not a picture-person though so I can't tell you how much better it is than the other one, but it definitely looks pretty understandable...

e: oh, that's a filtered word... so... darn*? :D

zenobia42
03-10-15, 08:20 PM
ElementBeatsLoses to
fire> nature, dark< earth, water
nature> earth, treasure< fire, gem
earth> fire, electric< nature, gem
water> fire, living wood< electric, X-mas, Valentine
dark> gem< fire, treasure, living wood
electric> water, Valentine< earth
gem> nature, earth< dark, treasure, living wood
treasure> dark, gem< nature, X-mas
living wood> dark, gem< water
X-mas> water, treasure(< nothing yet)
Valentine> water< electric
shamrock> ???< ???

cocauina
03-10-15, 08:36 PM
I spent the early evening working on something for right-brained people. It's only fair I do the same for you left-brain types before bed, so I will work on it now!

Ahahahah thank you very much for your help :)

The graphic in my opinion is more understandable, at least for me xD

The table is very helpfull also, I will save both of them for diferent days, the table for the lazy brain day or when it's already late, and the other one for when my brain isn't lazy ahahah


So this is what I've been doing all evening. As with the color block graphics, above=strong to, below=weak. But in this one you follow the lines. Only ones connected by lines have a strong/weak relationship.

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s586/zenobia42/FFS/battle_pictographic1_zpsjwe6sz7l.jpg

I know left-brained folks prefer the text and lists. But there are also a lot of right-brained folks in out community who understand better with graphics and colors, and have relied on the color block graphics instead of text lists. So for the right-brained folks, is this better than the color blocks? I hope?

I prefer this graphic to the color blocks, IMO, the color block it's to hard to understand, and this graphic is more clearly, we only need to follow the lines and like you already said, above=strong to, below=weak to

And I asked for a table since the table is more easy to do than a new image xD


ElementBeatsLoses to
fire> nature, dark< earth, water
nature> earth, treasure< fire, gem
earth> fire, electric< nature, gem
water> fire, living wood< electric, X-mas, Valentine
dark> gem< fire, treasure, living wood
electric> water, Valentine< earth
gem> nature, earth< dark, treasure, living wood
treasure> dark, gem< nature, X-mas
living wood> dark, gem< water
X-mas> water, treasure(< nothing yet)
Valentine> water< electric
shamrock> ???< ???


The table, it's for the player who are in a lazy day or don't even want to think and only want the element that they need to use ahah But it's helpfull also, like always :)

biologybrain
03-16-15, 04:28 AM
Zenobia your tables are AWESOME!

I have a dumb battle question though about rarity... Does it matter whether your animal is a Super Rare won from a battle verses one you bred? For instance, the Blizard & Glacial Griffin have the same elements & are both Super Rare, but the Blizard was a battle prize, while the Griffen a random nest prize. Does that give the Blizard an edge on the battlefield? Or what about the Sloth & Treebra, they were both battle prizes, but is one a better fighter than the other? Or am I making this even more complicated than it already is?

Vodelle
03-16-15, 08:38 AM
Nope, that shouldn't matter.

(Although as I think we've demonstrated - picking the right elements/higher rarity/higher levels helps, but it feels like tournaments are 70% luck anyway. Someone won with a lvl 3 rumblebee against the cthulhu in like, 3 tries, while it took me 10 to take him down with a lvl 13 one. Makes sense? Nope. That's FFS for you!)

zenobia42
03-16-15, 06:40 PM
Testing SHAMROCK element with my level 3 lucky rabbit.

Battle 1, vs electric-fire, it was neutral. Also, the battle icon shows a leaf not a shamrock. But if it were a leaf, it would have been weak. So it's just an error in the imagery. Anyway, either A) shamrock neutral to both electric and fire or B) it's strong to one and weak to the other. More battles needed.
Battle 2, vs. electric-earth, neutral. Likely neutral to fire, electric and earth but could be weak the electric and strong to the other 2, or vice-versa.
Battle 3, vs. pandaffodil, critical kill on the first hit so no data.
Battle 4, vs. nature-fire, neutral.
Battle 5, vs. dark-nature, neutral. Looking neutral all around.
Battle 6, vs. electric-earth again, still neutral. (I was too lazy to look and see what the next would be and save myself a pointless loss lol.)
Battle 7 vs. earth-nature, neutral.


I will continue to update this post with individual battle results and then make a new post only if and when I determine it is definitely strong or weak to anything. So far, against the common-rare-super elements, all neutral.

cocauina
03-25-15, 07:50 PM
ElementBeatsLoses to
fire> nature, dark< earth, water
nature> earth, treasure< fire, gem
earth> fire, electric< nature, gem
water> fire, living wood< electric, X-mas, Valentine
dark> gem< fire, treasure, living wood
electric> water, Valentine< earth
gem> nature, earth< dark, treasure, living wood
treasure> dark, gem< nature, X-mas
living wood> dark, gem< water
X-mas> water, treasure(< nothing yet)
Valentine> water< electric
shamrock> ???< ???


zenobia42 (or someone else that can help) Is there new update about the elements that needs to be updated?

Is that and it's the thing between electric and valentine, is valentine really weak to electric, and electric really strong against valentine? I ask this because of a little problem that I'm facing now.

zenobia42
03-25-15, 08:07 PM
zenobia42 (or someone else that can help) Is there new update about the elements that needs to be updated?

Is that and it's the thing between electric and valentine, is valentine really weak to electric, and electric really strong against valentine? I ask this because of a little problem that I'm facing now.

It was when it was tested. They HAVE changed animal strengths and weaknesses before. Some stuff that was noted about the Christmas elements in the battlegrounds was no longer true by the time the next tournament rolled around. And they made nature not strong treasure for a while, another example of them testing things out on us without responding to the public outcry against it, not even to acknowledge they changed something, or end their little test on us and claim it was "fixed"... like the recent bomb thing. Anyway, I'll try Matripony in the battlegrounds when I get to anther electric element.

Shamrock is so far neutral to everything. It's possible they went and made ALL the holiday elements neutral. And, as is typical of them, didn't bother to say anything to us about it. :rolleyes:

cocauina
03-25-15, 09:37 PM
It was when it was tested. They HAVE changed animal strengths and weaknesses before. Some stuff that was noted about the Christmas elements in the battlegrounds was no longer true by the time the next tournament rolled around. And they made nature not strong treasure for a while, another example of them testing things out on us without responding to the public outcry against it, not even to acknowledge they changed something, or end their little test on us and claim it was "fixed"... like the recent bomb thing. Anyway, I'll try Matripony in the battlegrounds when I get to anther electric element.

Shamrock is so far neutral to everything. It's possible they went and made ALL the holiday elements neutral. And, as is typical of them, didn't bother to say anything to us about it. :rolleyes:

Thank you very much zenobia42 I already saw your big red info in the Slippopotamus Tournament thread. :)

zenobia42
04-08-15, 09:34 AM
`
I have been using a Level 14 Harpy for the first try for most of the rounds to get some data. See post #4 for details. I haven't analyzed it yet but this is what I have so far for the Shamrock/Luck element.
--Nature/Fire - Neutral
--Electric/Dark - Neutral
--Earth/Fire - Neutral
--xMas/Fire - Strong
--Valentine - Weak
--Earth/Nature - Neutral

From other sources in this thread I see that
-- Dark/Earth - Neutral from Tatalansmiles
--Earth/Fire - Neutral reported by Rjazz

Thanks to nina for documenting and collecting this info! Now the part everyone can skip over and just read the end. I just need to lay out all the various logic trains in order to come to any conclusions. = means neutral. > means strong. < means weak.

shamrock = nature-fire. That means shamrock 1A) = fire & nature, 1B) > fire; < nature or 1C) < fire; > nature
shamrock = electric-dark. Shamrock: 2A) =electric & dark, 2B) > electric; < dark or C) < electric; > dark. (train 1 not affected)
shamrock = earth-fire. Revise train 1 to shamrock 1A) = fire, nature & earth or 1B) > fire; < nature & earth or 1C) < fire; > nature & earth (train 2 not affected).
shamrock > Xmas-fire. 1C cannot be correct. If shamrock < fire, it cannot be overall > Xmas-fire. So either shamrock: 1A) = fire, nature & earth; > Xmas, or 1B) > fire; = Xmas; < earth & nature (train 2 not affected).
shamrock < Valentine. The lack of other elements makes this 100% clear.
shamrock = earth-nature. Back to train 1. 1B cannot be correct. If shamrock < earth & nature it is not = earth-nature. So we conclude that shamrock 1A) = fire, nature & earth; > Xmas. (train 2 not affected)
shamrock = dark-earth. Since we know shamrock = earth, that means shamrock also = dark. And train 2B and 2C cannot be correct. Only 2A can be. So shamrock also = electric.
shamrock = earth-fire. Confirms what we determined 2 steps ago.


My Harpy attack against the round 14 Blizard Water/Earth was Neutral. So Shamrock is Neutral against Water.

In conclusion,
shamrock > Xmas. (Note that this is the first time any element is strong to Xmas!)
shamrock < Valentine.
shamrock = (is neutral to) fire, nature, earth, water, dark, electric, treasure.

unknown relationships to: gem, living wood.

zenobia42
04-09-15, 08:58 AM
I just got to Treet, I was wondering what to fight it with. Rd 26. I'll try shamrock on it for the records.
Lucky rabbit, weak, weak, weak.

So:

shamrock > Xmas.
shamrock < Valentine, living wood.
shamrock = (is neutral to) fire, nature, earth, water dark, electric, treasure.

ninasidstorm8
04-09-15, 09:09 AM
So:

shamrock > Xmas.
shamrock < Valentine, living wood.
shamrock = (is neutral to) fire, nature, earth, water dark, electric, treasure.

Shamrock is also neutral to Gem

zenobia42
04-09-15, 09:24 AM
Shamrock is also neutral to Gem

Thanks! So...

shamrock > Xmas.
shamrock < Valentine, living wood.
shamrock = (is neutral to) fire, nature, earth, water dark, electric, treasure, gem.

Now we just need to sort out the changes made to VALENTINE.
Originally, electric > Valentine > water.
Since electric has been registering neutral to Valentine, we have been assuming that just means Valentine > water and = everything else. However, when I used Matripony to attack elephantum at the beginning of this tournament, it definitely registered as WEAK. That means one of three things:
A) They changed valentine = electric to valentine < electric between the end of last tournament and beginning of this one... then changed it back again to = soon after it started, making the fourth iteration of the valentine-electric relationship.
B) They somehow made it that THEIR valentine animal has no weakness but OURS is weak to electric.
C) They changed valentine = dark (which had ALWAYS been the case since valentine element was released) to valentine < dark.

If someone has not yet beat matripony and can test a dark attack on it, that can confirm or eliminate C as an option.

zenobia42
04-09-15, 10:07 AM
oh.
My.
God.

EVIL.
PURE EVIL.

The answer to my question in the last post is actually B) They made it that THEIR valentine animal has no weakness but OURS is weak to electric.

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s586/zenobia42/FFS/IMG_0498_zpssi3fn947.png

un. believe. able. Seriously, TL? YOUR Matripony is indestructible but OURS has a weakness? Really? REALLY?! I am honest-to-goodness SHOCKED at how evil that is. And I thought nothing they did could shock me any more.

zenobia42
04-09-15, 01:15 PM
The latest graphic:

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s586/zenobia42/FFS/FFS_battle_chart_040915d_zpsdeadz8ye.jpg

zenobia42
04-09-15, 01:17 PM
And the latest in text:
ElementStrong vs.Weak vs.
fire> nature, dark< earth, water
nature> earth, treasure< fire, gem
earth> fire, electric< nature, gem
water> fire, living wood< electric, X-mas, Valentine
dark> gem< fire, treasure, living wood
electric> water, Valentine< earth
gem> nature, earth< dark, treasure, living wood
treasure> dark, gem< nature, X-mas
living wood> dark, gem, shamrock< nothing now
X-mas> water, treasure< shamrock
Valentine> water, shamrockOUR Valentine is < electric The arena's Matripony is special and has no weakness
shamrock> X-mas< Valentine, living wood

zenobia42
04-09-15, 03:28 PM
And finally the list that is meant to replace the outdated "Universal Fighter Selector" on page 1:

Opponent's ElementsBest Bets to Beat ItStrong/Weak Elements[/tr]
FireWater-earth. Cthulhu or cyclops. {Earth or water} with {anything but nature or dark}.
NatureRuby. Gem (with anything but earth). Fire with anything but earth.
EarthEmerald. Unicorn, cyclops or cthulhu. Nature with {anything but fire or electric}.
WaterCitrine. Electric with anything but fire; Xmas or V-Day with no fire.
DarkTreasure. Living wood; or fire with anything but gem.
ElectricCyclops. Earth with anything but water or V-Day.
GemTreasure. Treent; or dark with {anything but nature or earth}.
TreasurePoodle. Another Xmas; or nature with {anything but dark or gem}.
Living WoodWater with {anything but dark or gem}.
ValentineAnything without water. Electric USED to be strong to Valentine, and our Valentine is still weak to electric. But the last 2 tournaments, the OPPOSING Matripony has no weakness.
nature-fireRuby. Steamtrunk. Gem (with anything but nature). {Fire or water} with {anything but nature or dark}.
earth-fireCyclops or cthulhu. Water-earth. Unicorn or Emerald. {Earth or water} with nature.
water-fireElectric-earth. Love Dove. Citrine or cyclops. Matripony; or {earth or electric} with water.
dark-fireEarth-fire, water-fire or water-earth. Treasure. Treent.
electric-fireCyclops. Earth with {fire, electric, water or Valentine}.
gem-fireTreasure. Treent, or water with anything but nature.
Xmas-fireCyclops. Earth with {fire, electric or water}.
Valentine-fireCyclops. Earth with {anything but nature or dark}.
earth-natureEmerald. Unicorn, ruby or cthulhu. Nature with {fire, water, dark or Xmas}.
water-natureCitrine. Gem (with anything but earth). Any Xmas; V-day (no earth); or electric with {anything but earth}.
dark-natureRuby. Fire with anything but earth. Treent.
electric-natureRuby. Gem (with anything but water). Fire with {anything but water or V-Day}.
gem-natureRuby. Dark-fire. Unicorn, Citrine or Cthulhu. Treent, or {fire or dark} with {water or electric}.
Xmas-natureRuby. Gem with anything but water. Fire with anything but earth or water.
water-earthEmerald. Poodle. Unicorn or Citrine. {Nature or V-Day} with anything but fire.
dark-earthEmerald or Treasure. Treent; or nature with {anything but electric}.
electric-earthEmerald or cyclops. Earth-nature. Unicorn or Citrine. {Nature or earth} with dark.
gem-earthTreasure, unicorn, emerald or cthulhu. Treent or dark with {water or nature}.
valentine-earthEmerald. Gem (with anything but fire or water). Nature with {anything but fire or water}.
dark-waterTreasure. Any Xmas or V-Day; or electric with anything but gem.
electric-waterElectric-earth. Citrine or cyclops. Poodle; or {Earth or electric} with {nature or dark}.
gem-waterElectric-dark. Treasure or Citrine. Matripony; or {dark or electric} with water.
electric-dark Earth-fire. Treasure. Treent; {Fire or earth} with {nature, dark, electric or Xmas}.
gem-electricTreasure. Treent, or {dark} with {fire, earth or electric}.


This is a work in progress ATM.

zenobia42
04-09-15, 03:53 PM
And I guess the post above was the the final one lol. Now, the fourth way of showing that info. This is for you, cocauina. :)

Fire is strong to: nature and dark.
Fire is weak to: earth and water.
Fire is neutral to: electric, gem, treasure, living wood, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Nature is strong to: earth and treasure.
Nature is weak to: fire and gem.
Nature is neutral to: water, dark, electric, living wood, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Earth is strong to: fire and electric.
Earth is weak to: nature and gem.
Earth is neutral to: water, dark, treasure, living wood, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Water is strong to: fire and living wood.
Water is weak to: electric, Xmas and valentine.
Water is neutral to: nature, earth, dark, gem, treasure, and shamrock.

Dark is strong to: gem.
Dark is weak to: fire, treasure and living wood.
Dark is neutral to: nature, earth, water, electric, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Electric is strong to: water and valentine (unless it's a Matripony in the arena - in that case our electric is NOT strong to it, even though the reverse is not the case).
Electric is weak to: earth.
Electric is neutral to: fire, nature, dark, gem, treasure, living wood, Xmas, shamrock, and the arena's special no-weakness Matripony.

Gem is strong to: nature and earth.
Gem is weak to: dark, treasure and living wood.
Gem is neutral to: fire, water, electric, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Treasure is strong to: dark and gem.
Treasure is weak to: nature and Xmas.
Treasure is neutral to: fire, earth, water, electric, living wood, shamrock and valentine.

Living wood is strong to: dark, gem and shamrock.
Living wood is weak to: nothing as of 4/9/15.
Living wood is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, water, electric, treasure, Xmas and valentine.

Xmas is strong to: water and treasure.
Xmas is weak to: shamrock.
Xmas is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, dark, electric, gem, living wood and valentine.

Valentine is strong to: water and shamrock.
OUR valentine is weak to electric. ARENA valentine is weak to nothing as of 4/9/15.
Valentine is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, dark, gem, treasure, living wood and Xmas.

Shamrock is strong to: Xmas.
Shamrock is weak to: living wood and valentine.
Shamrock is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, water, dark, electric, gem and treasure.

rjazz
04-09-15, 05:23 PM
And finally the list that is meant to replace the outdated "Universal Fighter Selector" on page 1:

Opponent's ElementsBest Bets to Beat ItStrong/Weak Elements[/tr]
FireWater-earth. Cthulhu or cyclops. {Earth or water} with {anything but nature or dark}.
NatureRuby. Gem (with anything but earth). Fire with anything but earth.
EarthEmerald. Unicorn, cyclops or cthulhu. Nature with {anything but fire or electric}.
WaterCitrine. Electric with anything but fire; Xmas or V-Day with no fire.
DarkTreasure. Living wood; or fire with anything but gem.
ElectricCyclops. Earth with anything but water or V-Day.
GemTreasure. Treent; or dark with {anything but nature or earth}.
TreasurePoodle. Another Xmas; or nature with {anything but dark or gem}.
Living WoodWater with {anything but dark or gem}.
ValentineAnything without water. Electric USED to be strong to Valentine, and our Valentine is still weak to electric. But the last 2 tournaments, the OPPOSING Matripony has no weakness.
nature-fireRuby. Steamtrunk. Gem (with anything but nature). {Fire or water} with {anything but nature or dark}.
earth-fireCyclops or cthulhu. Water-earth. Unicorn or Emerald. {Earth or water} with nature.
water-fireElectric-earth. Love Dove. Citrine or cyclops. Matripony; or {earth or electric} with water.
dark-fireEarth-fire, water-fire or water-earth. Treasure. Treent.
electric-fireCyclops. Earth with {fire, electric, water or Valentine}.
gem-fireTreasure. Treent, or water with anything but nature.
Xmas-fireCyclops. Earth with {fire, electric or water}.
Valentine-fireCyclops. Earth with {anything but nature or dark}.
earth-natureEmerald. Unicorn, ruby or cthulhu. Nature with {fire, water, dark or Xmas}.
water-natureCitrine. Gem (with anything but earth). Any Xmas; V-day (no earth); or electric with {anything but earth}.
dark-natureRuby. Fire with anything but earth. Treent.
electric-natureRuby. Gem (with anything but water). Fire with {anything but water or V-Day}.
gem-natureRuby. Dark-fire. Unicorn, Citrine or Cthulhu. Treent, or {fire or dark} with {water or electric}.
Xmas-natureRuby. Gem with anything but water. Fire with anything but earth or water.
water-earthEmerald. Poodle. Unicorn or Citrine. {Nature or V-Day} with anything but fire.
dark-earthEmerald or Treasure. Treent; or nature with {anything but electric}.
electric-earthEmerald or cyclops. Earth-nature. Unicorn or Citrine. {Nature or earth} with dark.
gem-earthTreasure, unicorn, emerald or cthulhu. Treent or dark with {water or nature}.
valentine-earthEmerald. Gem (with anything but fire or water). Nature with {anything but fire or water}.
dark-waterTreasure. Any Xmas or V-Day; or electric with anything but gem.
electric-waterElectric-earth. Citrine or cyclops. Poodle; or {Earth or electric} with {nature or dark}.
gem-waterElectric-dark. Treasure or Citrine. Matripony; or {dark or electric} with water.
electric-dark Earth-fire. Treasure. Treent; {Fire or earth} with {nature, dark, electric or Xmas}.
gem-electricTreasure. Treent, or {dark} with {fire, earth or electric}.


This is a work in progress ATM.
I like this one!!!!

cocauina
04-09-15, 10:01 PM
And I guess the post above was the the final one lol. Now, the fourth way of showing that info. This is for you, cocauina. :)

Fire is strong to: nature and dark.
Fire is weak to: earth and water.
Fire is neutral to: electric, gem, treasure, living wood, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Nature is strong to: earth and treasure.
Nature is weak to: fire and gem.
Nature is neutral to: water, dark, electric, living wood, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Earth is strong to: fire and electric.
Earth is weak to: nature and gem.
Earth is neutral to: water, dark, treasure, living wood, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Water is strong to: fire and living wood.
Water is weak to: electric, Xmas and valentine.
Water is neutral to: nature, earth, dark, gem, treasure, and shamrock.

Dark is strong to: gem.
Dark is weak to: fire, treasure and living wood.
Dark is neutral to: nature, earth, water, electric, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Electric is strong to: water and valentine (unless it's a Matripony in the arena - in that case our electric is NOT strong to it, even though the reverse is not the case).
Electric is weak to: earth.
Electric is neutral to: fire, nature, dark, gem, treasure, living wood, Xmas, shamrock, and the arena's special no-weakness Matripony.

Gem is strong to: nature and earth.
Gem is weak to: dark, treasure and living wood.
Gem is neutral to: fire, water, electric, Xmas, valentine and shamrock.

Treasure is strong to: dark and gem.
Treasure is weak to: nature and Xmas.
Treasure is neutral to: fire, earth, water, electric, living wood, shamrock and valentine.

Living wood is strong to: dark, gem and shamrock.
Living wood is weak to: nothing as of 4/9/15.
Living wood is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, water, electric, treasure, Xmas and valentine.

Xmas is strong to: water and treasure.
Xmas is weak to: shamrock.
Xmas is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, dark, electric, gem, living wood and valentine.

Valentine is strong to: water and shamrock.
OUR valentine is weak to electric. ARENA valentine is weak to nothing as of 4/9/15.
Valentine is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, dark, gem, treasure, living wood and Xmas.

Shamrock is strong to: Xmas.
Shamrock is weak to: living wood and valentine.
Shamrock is neutral to: fire, nature, earth, water, dark, electric, gem and treasure.

Now I will copy this info for an note pad and when TL decides to change things again I will change them also, but probably will ask when I'm not sure ahahah

zenobia42
04-28-15, 05:22 PM
A few things to check out if anyone gets a chance if you please:

Cosmic element - please list the effect your cosmic attack had vs. any opponent and whether it was weak, strong, or neutral (no message). PLEASE NOTE: A critical hit does NOT mean it is strong. There is a chance that a critical hit can result from any strong, weak or neutral attack. It's just that the stronger your attack, the more likely it is to land that all-important critical hit. So if your attack only lands 1 or or more critical hit, and no non-critical hits, then it does not tell us whether the attack was strong, neutral or weak. Only that you were lucky. :)

I am going to try cosmic in the battlegrounds which I continue to not finish, in order to test stuff like this. :)

Also, living wood used to be weak to water. But as of the last tournament, the ARENA's Treent of Life was weak to nothing. I am wondering if Treent is now weak to water again or not, or weak to anything else now.

zenobia42
04-28-15, 05:29 PM
Battle 1: Cosmic attack was WEAK vs. earth-nature. Time to start the possibility branches: A) cosmic < earth & = nature, B) cosmic < nature & = earth, or C) cosmic < earth, < nature.
Battle 2: Cosmic attack was NEUTRAL vs. dark-fire. So D) cosmic = dark, = fire or E) cosmic > dark, < fire or F) cosmic < dark, > fire. This tells us nothing about which or A), B) or C) is true.
Battle 3: Cosmic was NEUTRAL to electric-water. So we need a third possibility train: G) cosmic = electric, = water, H) cosmic < electric, > water or I) cosmic > electric, < water. No further info on A vs B vs C or on D vs E vs F.
Battle 4: earth-nature again. Shoulda looked at my own battlegrounds thread and seen it coming lol.
Battle 4: Cosmic was WEAK vs. earth-fire. It's still possible it is more complicated than this but it is probable that it is weak to earth, and neutral to fire, nature, water, dark, electric.
Battle 5: Cosmic was NEUTRAL to treasure. :( I had been really hoping there would be a new element strong to treasure since I have such a TERRIBLE time with treasure in tournaments now and TL started putting not one but TWO treasure animals in EVERY tournament, even flash tournaments. :(

to be continued...

Preliminary Conclusions:
It MIGHT BE: weak to earth, and neutral to fire, nature, water, dark, electric.
It is definitely neutral to treasure.

cocauina
04-29-15, 11:29 AM
zenobia

Cosmic from Lemurcury is neutral to Valentine Matripony

readysetgo888
04-29-15, 12:04 PM
Since I'm sitting out this tournament anyway, I can definitely try it.

I have the Plutopus:
Neutral to fire-nature
Neutral to dark-nature
Neutral to dark-water

chippychan
04-29-15, 01:22 PM
Cosmic was NEUTRAL against electric-dark (Rumblebee).

It seems like it's neutral to everything but weak to earth at this point. I am truly curious about how it does against the treent element (living wood). I'm going to try when I get there in the tournament.

YasminIssa
04-30-15, 06:41 AM
As I mentioned in Growvine tournament thread, I tried Plutopus, cosmic hit against Unicorn and gave me 3 neutral hits. This prove that Cosmic element is neutral to gem as well.

zenobia42
04-30-15, 08:22 AM
Thanks for all the help, cocauina, ready, chippy and Yasmin!

So far it seems the Space element is:
WEAK to earth
NEUTRAL to fire, nature, water, electric, dark, gem, treasure, Valentine
UNKNOWN vs. Xmas, Shamrock, Living Wood.

PLEASE let it be strong vs. Living Wood! Otherwise NOTHING is strong to Living Wood. Making Space > Living Wood would make sense from their perspective: they have been aggressively making "old" elements obsolete and trying to force us to buy new elements (forcing vets to buy them that is, while allowing newer players to breed them easily, to get them hooked on the game), to be able to have a chance in battles we used to be able to handle with ease.

chippychan
04-30-15, 07:47 PM
Just tried cosmic against Treent and it is unfortunately neutral to it. A shame. It would have made sense (at least in my mind) for a 'space' element to be strong against living wood. :(

zenobia42
04-30-15, 07:51 PM
Just tried cosmic against Treent and it is unfortunately neutral to it. A shame. It would have made sense (at least in my mind) for a 'space' element to be strong against living wood. :(

:( :( :( :( :(

Thanks for testing it for everyone, though. Hope you finish the tourney soon. :)

ETA: Logically, space should also be strong to fire IMO. A fire cannot "live" in space where there is no oxygen.

catsneezes
05-01-15, 08:51 AM
I was wondering how much of a difference there is between "rare" and "super-rare"? I'm kicking myself because to have a strong Shamrock fighter, I levelled my Lucky Rabbit to lvl 14. but now I'm wondering if I should feed up my Leopardchaun instead, since it's super rare, compared to the Rabbit which is just rare.

zenobia42
05-01-15, 09:23 AM
I was wondering how much of a difference there is between "rare" and "super-rare"? I'm kicking myself because to have a strong Shamrock fighter, I levelled my Lucky Rabbit to lvl 14. but now I'm wondering if I should feed up my Leopardchaun instead, since it's super rare, compared to the Rabbit which is just rare.

The theory is that the more rare your animal in a battle, the better your odds of winning the fight. So the Leopardchaun is more likely to win than a Lucky Rabbit of the same level. If the theory is correct.

Good luck in the tournament!

chippychan
05-02-15, 06:43 AM
Just tried cosmic against shamrock in the battlegrounds (hamrock) and its neutral. :(

Edit: also just tried cosmic against Christmas and its also neutral. So it looks like cosmic is not strong against anything right now, and is weak to earth.

ninasidstorm8
05-22-15, 01:53 PM
During the Charger Battleground, I tried the Cosmic element against all the element combinations available during the battleground. Cosmic is definitely Weak against Earth. It is Neutral to everything else, including Living Wood, Valentine, Shamrock, and Christmas. Its strength to the new Spring element or itself is unknown at this time.

ninasidstorm8
05-22-15, 02:01 PM
I tried the new Spring element in the Charger Battleground against the last few opponents in the battleground. Due to the element combinations that were available, I cannot be definite about it's relative strength except to Treasure which it is Neutral. It is most likely Strong to Nature and Neutral to most other elements. Following is a summary of the Spring attacks that I do have information for.

Dark/Water - Neutral
Earth/Fire - Neutral
Earth/Nature/ - Strong Attack
Electric/Water - Neutral
Gem/Nature - Strong Attack
Treasure - Neutral
Water/Fire - Neutral

Ca7007
05-25-15, 07:23 AM
I tried the new Spring element in the Charger Battleground against the last few opponents in the battleground. Due to the element combinations that were available, I cannot be definite about it's relative strength except to Treasure which it is Neutral. It is most likely Strong to Nature and Neutral to most other elements. Following is a summary of the Spring attacks that I do have information for.

Dark/Water - Neutral
Earth/Fire - Neutral
Earth/Nature/ - Strong Attack
Electric/Water - Neutral
Gem/Nature - Strong Attack
Treasure - Neutral
Water/Fire - Neutral

I was going through the battlegrounds on my baby account and used the Spring element towards a Ferry Ferret (nature-fire) and it was strong. The next creature was a Pyro Pony and it was neutral. I guess it is strong against nature. :)

LonePudding
05-25-15, 09:09 AM
Does anyone know what program/editor or anything similar that Zenobia used to make the element graphics? They are very very helpful but they need tweaking with the addition of the spring element.

chippychan
06-09-15, 06:11 PM
I'm trying to update my notes of strong attacks there are a several elements I'm not sure about or want to verify. This is what I have for some 'special' elements:

Living Wood - Nothing is 'Strong' Against it
Valentine - Nothing is 'Strong' Against it
Shamrock - Nothing is 'Strong' Against it
Cosmic - ?
Spring - ?

Do I have Linving Wood/Valentine/Shamrock correct? Nothing is Strong against them? Are there any attacks 'weak' against them?

And I know Cosmic & Spring and new and not common in tournaments/battlegrounds yet, but if anyone has any experience against these elements in the near future please feel free to share. :)

ninasidstorm8
06-09-15, 06:37 PM
I'm trying to update my notes of strong attacks there are a several elements I'm not sure about or want to verify. This is what I have for some 'special' elements:

Living Wood - Nothing is 'Strong' Against it
Valentine - Nothing is 'Strong' Against it
Shamrock - Nothing is 'Strong' Against it
Cosmic - ?
Spring - ?

Do I have Linving Wood/Valentine/Shamrock correct? Nothing is Strong against them? Are there any attacks 'weak' against them?

And I know Cosmic & Spring and new and not common in tournaments/battlegrounds yet, but if anyone has any experience against these elements in the near future please feel free to share. :)

You are correct in that there are no Strong Attacks currently available against Living Wood, Valentine or Shamrock.

A Shamrock attack is Weak against Living Wood and Valentine.

We have not faced a Cosmic or Spring animal yet, so those are unknown at this time. We can no longer infer how an animal will react to an attack by using the data obtained by using that element to attack.

Using Cosmic, it doesn't appear to be strong against anything and it is Weak to Earth. Using Spring, it is Strong to Earth and Neutral to most everything else but my data is not complete on this one yet.

I do not have a Treasure animal, so my personal data does not include information about Treasure attacks.

I hope this helps you.

chippychan
06-10-15, 05:05 AM
Thank you for the confirmation, ninasidstorm8! :)

It looks like there's a comic animal in the current tournament, hopefully we can get some experience with what is 'strong' or 'weak' against it.

cath0138
07-02-15, 08:19 AM
Have you or anyone for that matter, had a chance to figure out how the new Space elements work in battle?

chippychan
07-02-15, 09:15 AM
Have you or anyone for that matter, had a chance to figure out how the new Space elements work in battle?

Cosmic (space element) was fully tested in the current tournament thread and it was found that everything was neutral against it, except for Cosmic (space) which was STRONG against it.

However, the tournament started having technical difficulties and this may or may not be true any longer. The reason is because during the up/down status of the tournament last night I re-tested Cosmic against Cosmic and got a neutral result. But afterward someone else reported is WAS still strong against it, and then someone else also mentioned EARTH being strong against it.

Long story short; I'm not 100% positive anymore, but the following MIGHT BE STRONG against Cosmic: COSMIC & EARTH.

I'm past the Caturn (pure cosmic) in the tournament so I can't re-check. If anyone cares to test these elements against Caturn again please post your findings. :)

reeisme
07-06-15, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=chippychan;1123332]I'm trying to update my notes of strong attacks there are a several elements I'm not sure about or want to verify. This is what I have for some 'special' elements:

This is what I have... mostly updated based on the most recent tournament discussion. Thank you!

Living Wood - May be weak to Nature and is strong against dark, gem, shamrock

Valentine - I have that it is weak to electric and possibly earth, spring. It is strong against shamrock and water?

Shamrock - It's weak to Valentine and living wood. It's strong against Christmas.

Cosmic - It's weak to earth and treasure. I have nothing listed that it's strong against.

Spring - I didn't find any weaknesses. It may be strong against Valentine, earth. (Update: it is strong against nature).

Music - It is weak to water and unsure of any strengths.

Ice Cream - It is weak to fire and strong against earth.

Is Dark strong against anything other than gem?

Sure would be nice to have a new battleground animal soon to continue our testing. :)


UPDATE: Here is the chart I compiled based on results in the battlegrounds:
21777


Storm8 ID: reeisme
I am looking for one more person to give a daily gem to.

Lesimony
07-07-15, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=chippychan;1123332]

Sure would be nice to have a new battleground animal soon to continue our testing.

Looks like you got your wish, LOL

I'm still on the Charger battleground. I just tried Treent against Shamrock (Lucky Rabbit) and got a Neutral result. Then I tried Valentine Earth (Love Dove) and also got Neutral.

reeisme
07-07-15, 08:49 PM
Funny! I'll update here as I discover anything new (strength or weakness) and I have an individual results thread started on page 4 of the Ashes battleground.

ninasidstorm8
01-07-16, 10:32 AM
Adding a post to this thread to bump it up in the list of threads. It hasn't been updated in quite a while but it provides an important foundation on how the Battle Arena/Batttleground functions and the information on the basic elements is still relevant.

Buttercup0001
10-24-16, 11:41 PM
Adding a post to bump this thread up. This has got great advice on the Arena/battlegrounds and information on the different elements plus there is universally fighter selection that I think a lot of players will benefit from it. Unfortunately the people that started the thread are no longer playing FFs but left behind valuable information.

haku8cafe
10-25-16, 12:49 AM
To each his own. Electric-Earth trumps eight elemental types compared to the 10 types trumped by Electric-Fire. But Terradactyl is already on my list in addition to Lion and I don't see the need for one to exclude the other.

My MINIMAL list was the least number of fighters that would trump ALL 21 elemental types.
My MVP list consisted of the fighters that scored the highest NEBs overall against the opponents they trumped.

You can take the approach of raising what you consider to be a well balanced representative of 7 elements and hope that covers it all. My exhaustive approach was to actually score every single elemental type against all 21 elemental types and compare the NEBs. That's how I generated my lists.

But you don't need to go by the numbers. That's just my own madness. I have a very calculated way of doing things. In the end, it's still only theoretical since I don't have all the animals on my own lists. That means my actual fight club will deviate considerably from my ideal and still be fine.

I'm sure yours will be fine also.

(I'm chuckling to myself because I think neither one of us has that Lion or Terradactyl ANYWAY, unless your breeding luck has returned. LOL)

sadly you are not playing anymore but I super LOVE your debate on animals, using caculations & theory to base on your theory good job

I love to hear theory & your caculations on the 21 elementals factor blew me away that is really very good work & thanks for leaving it out ... well wish I would have play FFS during my DS days so I could have met you :)

CocoMom101
11-30-16, 10:13 PM
I don't know where the best place is for this comment but here goes.

When I'm in a battle I decide who I will choose to go up against the enemy with the following rules:

1) Look at the first (or only) "type" of the combatant
2) Choose your fighter based on these rules of thumb(using loose scientific principals is the way I remember them). Choose your fighter with the highest rarity/level available to you with the rarity of your animal being more important than the level.
a) for a water enemy use an electric animal(an electrical current will un-combine the water molecule)
b) for an electric enemy use an earth animal(earth grounds electricity and makes it harmless)
c) for a nature enemy use fire(fire destroys nature)
d) for an earth enemy use nature(plants break up rocks with their roots)
e) for a dark enemy use fire(fire dispels the darkness)
f) for a gem enemy use dark(a gem cannot sparkle in the darkness)
g) for a fire enemy use water(water extinguishes fire)
3) Then check that the combatants secondary element isn't something that will counter your chosen attack. For example if you are facing a water/earth animal you would choose electric based on the rules of 2). But, the secondary earth element would negate your electric attack so in this case your should choose your fighter according to the secondary element of your enemy and choose nature instead.
4) If the enemy has a first element that does not fall into the categories in 2) use same principals with it's secondary element(if it has one).
5) If the enemy has a only a very rare element(not listed here) use your highest rarity/highest level animal of any category.

The first three rules should cover about 99% of the battles you will encounter.

I have found that winning a battle is mostly chance. In order to win you "must" get a Critical Hit. The chances of getting a critical hit are increased if you choose the right element to fight with and choose the highest rarity and level of animal with that element. But, since the battles are based on chance, you "can" get a Critical Hit using a Neutral Attack (nothing flashes when you use a neutral attack) and even a Weak Attack, although the chance is greatly reduced. If you choose an animal that does not give you a "Strong Attack" with one of it's elements try the other element on your next turn. Even with three "Strong Attack"s you can still lose the battle - and often do. Just keep making good picks based on the rules given and you should(eventually - maybe) win against a difficult opponent.

I hope this helps. Remembering the "loose science" rules can improve your confidence in choosing fighters for the battles and save the time needed to consult battle charts for every battle.

ginerp
04-23-17, 05:19 PM
OK I have come upon an opponent that I just cannot beat. He is a level 20 gem fire hybrid. I see that I need to use a water hybrid other than water-nature. Unfortunately I have no super rare level 15 water hybrids. I do have a rare water-earth at 15 and a super rare water-dark at 11. But after try after try, they can't beat him. Am I doomed to wait until I can get together the gazillion apples it's going to take to get my super rare water-dark to level 15? I am SO TIRED of fighting this guy. And I hadn't intended on leveling up my hatchling any time soon so it's frustrating to feel like the battleground is going to force me to.

GreytMom
04-24-17, 01:12 AM
^qinerp, it doesn't necessarily have to be a super rare to win as long as the element is correct. Take a look through the tournament threads as people have posted weakness charts that may help you get through the Battlegrounds. These forums and the people on them have been so helpful for me.

There is also a thread somewhere with tips on growing your food stash. Tedious as it is, the best way if you don't have coins for Charm Cherries is to plant & harvest Pears continuously​ and you'll get about 2,000 per hour - this can be done when watching tv or if you're an insomniac.
Definitely take some time to search around and you can find some great resources. Best of luck to you!