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SaTy22
08-22-14, 05:54 PM
As I already did write more than 100 posts in this forum, I decided to open a thread, that might be useful to some players.

So here is my

Mining Strategy Guide.

Content:


Introduction
Basics

Wording
spending Gold


The Mining

general Information
recognize the grid
Step 1: approximate localisation of the fragment
Step 2: rake up the sectors
conclusion


After the first fragment



Introduction

The first shaft is available at lvl 45 (mining for dragon-parts), the second one at lvl 80 (mining island-parts for expansion).
For the first shaft, you will ne need bombs, the second one requires dynamite.
As a side-effect, you will also gain coins and crops through mining, which is pretty useful regarding the maximum amount of 500 crops (left mine)/ 1000 crops (right mine), you can find in one mining-spot.
There are many threads in this forum about where to find the mine, how to get bombs and dynamite and so on, so I won't talk about those issues.
In this guide, I'll concentrate on optimal mining strategies, presuming the reader knows what mining is all about.
If not, here is a brief introduction:
http://forums.storm8.com/showthread.php?63066-Dragon-Story-Mining-4-1-Update-Expansion-side-opened!

If you follow my instructions, you will definitely get 1, almost everytime get 2, and even frequently get 3 or more fragments for each bomb.
Regarding the fact, that english is not my original language, I appologize for any writing- and grammar mistakes in this guide. If you don't understand what I meant to say at certain points, be free to ask in this thread.

Basics

Wording

For the left mine, you will need bombs, obtainable through evolving dragons in evolution temple, the right mine needs dynamite, obtainable through breeding dragons in your breeding den. For every 4 hours in temple/den, you will gain 1 dynamite/bomb. For example, a dragon, that takes 15 hours will get you 3 dynamite/bombs (3*4=12, the remaining 3 will be lost). To make it easier, I will use the word "bomb" for either dynamite and bombs.
Each bomb will give you 12 trys to find a fragment (for dragon-crafting or expansion) in the mine. I will call these trys "bombings".

Spending gold

As in any other part of this game, you can use gold, to enhance your chance to get fragments.
All prizes mentioned below are meant for the LEFT mine. Prizes for RIGHT mine are always the DOUBLE.


) While mining, you can buy 1 bombing for 1 gold each (maximum of 10 gold for first use, then 12 gold)
) In case you don't have bombs, you can buy 1 bomb for 8 gold, or 10 bombs for 40 gold
) You can speed up evolving/breeding to get bombs. Every 4 hours(= 4 gold) get's you 1 bomb. This even works for the dynamite! (no double prize here)

In case you are close on time to collect parts for crafting dragons, you may be willed to spend gold to get fragments faster.
I propose to only use option 3.) It's the cheapest way to get bombs and as "side-effect", you will advance your island. Even if you need to empty your nests first to put the egg from the breeding den inside, it still is the cheapest method.

The mining

general information

Each bombing will either hit the fragment, or (in most cases) will give you a hint, where the next fragment is.


very close: the fragment is in 1-spot-distance to your current bombing
near: the fragment is in 2-spot-distance to your current bombing
too far: the fragment is further away than 2 spots from your current bombing

After you have found a fragment, you can go on mining in the same mine, as long as you have bombings left.
I'm not sure about the maximum number of fragments in a mine. My maximum was 6.

recognize the grid

The mining area is a virtual grid with 7 rows and 10 columns. Because you can't see the grid behind the beautiful image, you will need to get used to the fixed positions, where you can put your bombs at first.
In case you are not already inured to this 10x7-grid, I suppose you take a look at the figure below and try to find the 4 corners on your own. Afterwards, you should try to get a feeling to hit a spot next to another and to hit a spot 2 spaces away. Try this horizontally, vertically and diagonally. Remember: In this first training we don't care about hitting the target. We just practice aiming.

http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/corners.png
the corner and edge-positions of mining spots

http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/grid.png
and the grid behind it

For further consideration, I simplified the image to an excel-sheet with the 10x7-grid to explain strategies.
I use abbreviations like (D4), which means the cell in row "C", column "4" in the grid I actually use.

Step 1: approximate localisation of the fragment

As you can see in the image below, you need up to 4 bombs, to determine the quarter, in which the fragment can be found.
So you put your first bomb on (C3). In case, you are "very close" or "near", you only have to search in the red sector. If you read "too far", you advance to sector 2 (C8, the green one). These first two bombs already cover 71% of the whole grid and reduce the number of possible aims from 70 down to 25.
Although there are other possibilities to split the whole grid into four, all-covering starting sectors, this one has the highest average chance to hit the fragment.
In this and the following cases, I don't regard symmetries, because it doesn't make a difference in the result.
So in the example above, you can also start at (C8), go to (C3), then (F8) and finally (F3). It's all the same.

http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/whole_grid_1.PNG

Step 2: rake up the sectors

once you have found the right sector, you need to find the fragment in as few steps as possible. So we have to regard every configuration and its best solution.
I will use the first configuration, to give a short glance on how I determined the best solution. For the other configurations you will only see the best solution, because the worse ones are not needed. (Trust me. Or take your time and try it on your own :) )

case 0: you got lucky and hit the fragment with your first bombing:
Congratulations! Go on mining. I won't consider this easy case any more :)

case 1: Bomb in sector 1 or 2 -> very close:
There are only 8 spots left, where the fragment can be. Without regarding rotation and mirroring of the grid, we only have 2 possible positions to put the first bomb (the first one after we've found the sector). As seen in the figure below, it is (A1) or (B1)

http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/3x3_start.PNG

The next bomb can again be "very close" or "near" ("far away" isn't possible any more). Now we have 8 possibilities to advance and we don't know yet, which one is the best.

http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/3x3_next.PNG

The further we advance, the more complex the system gets. So I won't explain more detail here.
If I get enough positive feedback to this guide, I will add a section where I explain, how I determined the best solution for each grid. But this whole thing is a little tricky and takes some time, so it would be too much for this guide.

Here is the result:
http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/3x3_solution.PNG

How to read:
The center of the figure is always the spot, you hit before. No matter where exactly in the main grid you are. Regard it as a relative view.
The numbers are the amount of bombings we need, to reach a certain field. When we mine in this grid, we start with the first bombing on (1). The result tells us, where to go next. If we are "very close", we proceed to the only (2), that is 1 spot away from the (1).
In case, it seems to be more than one possibility to predeed from one field to the next, then one of those is in conflict with any former information.
If we are "near", we proceed to the only (2), that is 2 spots away from the (1). The same way with (3) and (4).
The next strategy sheets work the same way.

For your better understanding, here is a litte example:
http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/example.PNG

case 2: Bomb in sector 1 or 2 -> near:

We do it the same way as we did before, we build up the best configuration. The black area is "very close" to our starting point, so there is no valid position:
http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/5x5_solution.PNG

case 3: Bomb in sector 3 or 4 -> very close:

Easier than the ones before:
http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/2x3_solution.PNG

case 4: Bomb in sector 3 or 4 -> near:

This is the easiest :)
http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/2x5_solution.PNG

conclusion:

That's it! These four cases cover every configuration, we can get while mining. You just need to keep in mind, in which sector you are (don't leave the borders) and follow the instruction for the certain case.
If you repeat it again and again, you will see that most cases are very similar and you will learn it fast.

As a final result, I did combine the best solution for all configurations in a single, all-covering grid.
In case you want to use the figure below, you just have to strictly follow the numbers and colors:

http://www.cdesefg.de/tmp/solution.png

usage (identical to the usage of the small sub-grids above):

) start with the blue spot (1)
) if you are "far away", you advance to the red (2)
) if you are "near", you advance to the yellow (2), that has an exact distance of 2 to your actual spot.
) if you are "very close", you advance to the green (2), that has an exact distance of 1 to your actual spot
) repeat 2) - 4) until you find the fragment. After you went to spot (2), you go on to (3), then (4) and so on.



In worst case, you need 7 steps to find the fragment.
In average, you will need 4.70 steps, to find a fragment.
In average, you will gain 2.55 fragments with each bomb!


After the first fragment

After you have found your first fragment, the next fragment will get a completely new position and you have to start with Step 1 (approximate localisation of the fragment) again.
Some of the strategies above don't work any more, because the spots are already released. For the second fragment, I propose to use the starting strategy mirrored horizontally. So you don't start on (C3), but on (E3), advance to (E8), then (B3) and finally (B8).
Anyway, from time to time you'll have to improvise a little. But this keeps the fun on it :)
For the third (or even fourth or fifth) fragment, you usually dont have much more than 2 or 3 bombings left. So you should bomb in an area, where you already did hit a lot of spots, so the information gain for the cases of "near" or "very close" is a little higher than in blank area.

Ok, that was all I could say about this topic so far. I hope it is not too complicated and you have fun and success trying those strategies and maybe get some more fragments, food and coin than before.
As mentioned above, I can write a passage about how to determine the best strategy for each configuration in detail, if you are interested.

That's it. Happy mining! :)

SaTy22
08-22-14, 05:55 PM
(placeholder)

Jnny2good
08-24-14, 01:38 AM
Very nice work. Best explanation of how the mine works that I've seen. I wrote a spreadsheet macro to help me track the the locations and suggest the strongest potential spots to mine. My real world average is only about 2.25 per bomb. I've often wondered if they manipulate the results when you are down to the last 50/50, becasue it sure seems to me that I guess wrong way more often than I get it right. I should track my results to see.

SaTy22
08-24-14, 03:56 AM
I've never measured the real average of fragments I got through mining, but though this is no representative statisic, I got 59 fragments from my 25 bombs for the new dragon. So this is an average of 2.36.
The main loss is surely because of the few Information you get for the 3rd fragment. This is why it is rather unlikely to reach the theoretical maximum of 2.55

But before I made up my mind about mining strategy, I reached an average of ~2, so in the long run, it is better not to mine without strategy.

cocauina
08-24-14, 07:00 AM
I don't have any strategy, normally from one bomb I can get 1, 2, 3 or 4 parts, but one day I was lucky enough to get 5 parts from one bomb :D

MFAcct
08-24-14, 04:39 PM
This is a great guide! I tried to follow it but must have been reading the last picture wrong. I am definitely going to use those four spots as starting spots, I used to use the top mushroom, the bottom mushroom, and the spot to the left of the hammer head as my first 3. I'm going to read it over again and see where I went wrong, I could definitely use better mining skills as I frequently only find one piece per bomb, and it's extremely rare for me to find 3 pieces.

SaTy22
08-28-14, 04:42 PM
Would be cool, if any Mod could move this thread to the game guide section.
Thx ;)

elwood99
08-28-14, 06:03 PM
This is a very good guide. I had another strategy but that would not pick up the spots at the edges. Many thanks

meoconlunar
08-28-14, 11:52 PM
Thank you, it really works :)

15198

Anaboe
08-30-14, 06:47 AM
SaTy, thank you for your work and explanation! I'm still puzzeling on your tactics, for I can feel you're right, but I don't understand if fully :)

Thanks to you I'm daring to make a second Obsidian, just to get the black gem :)

dangerb0y
08-30-14, 08:34 AM
Great guide. For readability sake I would switch 2 and 4 in the usage part. I was advancing to the red 2 then wondering why I had to go back to the green 2.

SaTy22
08-31-14, 07:03 AM
Great guide. For readability sake I would switch 2 and 4 in the usage part. I was advancing to the red 2 then wondering why I had to go back to the green 2.

Thanks for the hint. I guess, switching the position won't help to understand the general usage. but to make it a little clearer, I use text-colors in this section now.

belbar22
09-16-14, 02:05 PM
Thank you so much for this guide, I used to get 1 or 2 bombs a hit about half the time each and since I have been using your guide I mostly get 2, sometimes 3 and occasionally 1 and 4. As I only evolve at 6 and 9, this is invaluable.

kooky panda
09-16-14, 02:51 PM
Great Guide!!
I have added a link to this thread under the Dragon Story Guide. (http://forums.storm8.com/showthread.php?41090-Dragon-Story-Game-Guide&p=472093&viewfull=1#post472093)

Anaboe
02-19-15, 05:34 AM
In the land-mining part, I noticed a change in the grid, it's still 7 by 10, but with much smaller dimensions. I have to find my markings again.

Anyone else noticed the same?

awsumum
02-19-15, 11:08 AM
Yes! I have too �� I can't seem to go out as far as I did before, it all seems condensed

zyfazix
02-20-15, 01:02 AM
18519

Used two bombs to try and find the new positions (not all attempts are visible here). Hope this helps to keep bombing efficiently ^_^

Anaboe
02-20-15, 05:06 AM
Thanks! That really helps!

roguebee
02-20-15, 06:25 AM
Thanks. Doesn't seem to be much of a problem on the iphone but definitely shrank on the ipad.

Lunaticus
03-24-15, 05:46 PM
Thank you SaTy22! This is a lotta help! Great job On simplifying it. *two thumbs up 👍 👍 *

edd2309
03-25-15, 10:13 AM
Is it really too much to ask for a visible grid? I get the rules of mining but sometimes it looks like you are clicking 2 spots away diagonally but you waste a click clicking 1 spot away from the original click. Some clarity would be nice

Anaboe
04-09-15, 07:37 PM
They again changed the grid... Looks like it's the original grid again...

zinj
04-12-15, 05:18 PM
This is great! I'm working through some optimal mining strategies and statistics myself and this is a great foundation to work with.

A couple things -

In the example of picking a starting location that is Very Close, I think where the general principle is shown the strategy results in an average of 1/8 higher number of turns than the optimal strategy. Consider the following, where X represents the starting pick, numbers represent turn number, and V or N represent Very Close or Near respectively in previous turns.


V2 VV3 N2
1 X NV3
VN3 VNV4 NN3

For example, VNV4 represents the 4th move where the initiating move X was the Very Close creating the scenario, followed by 1 which was also Very Close; followed by V2 which was Near; followed by followed by VN3 which was Very Close, followed by VNV4 where success is certain.

As it is written in your write up, N2 and NV3 and switched, and NN3 becomes NVN4, resulting in an extra move 1/8 of the time.

By my reading of the fully mapped strategy, I think you follow the pattern I present. However because that strategy only works for the first fragment and the general principal needs to be followed on following fragments, I think it's worth having the optimal strategy clearly defined.

Also, the average number of fragments per bomb (per entry to the mine?) given as 2.55 appears to be:

Average Fragments = Total Bombs / Average Bombs per Fragment

However because successive fragments will already have additional information in the form of an average of 4.7 bombed locations where the fragment will not be found, would it make sense to say that 2.55 is a lower bound to the average? I haven't worked through the math of successive fragments to see whether the additional information really helps or if they somehow disrupt the optimal algorithm in some unforeseen way, but just wanted to check the assumption about the simple average given above.

Hope I've understood this all correctly! Am I missing anything? Thanks again!

Cheers,
Z

Mythdefied
04-13-15, 07:49 AM
Okay, I finally put this game on my tablet, which has a far bigger screen than my phone. I figured I'd finally be able to use this guide effectively due to the larger size. However, after following the guide twice, I realized that the active area in the mine is smaller than the one used in this guide. The grid doesn't match up, so the guide is useless. Great. The grid is bigger by one section around the entire edge.

BiteMe111
04-16-15, 02:18 PM
Could we please change the first post to state that this feature is available to all users? This must have changed at some point after the post was written, but Android users definitely do have the mining feature now. :)

zinj
04-16-15, 11:42 PM
My mining simulator and search algorithm appears to be working. After an initial set of results that seemed soundly coded but improved more than expected on what I had arrived at through manual optimization, I took care of a couple bugs and I?m getting results that match the average of 4.7 bombs per first fragment described in the original post.

The search algorithm is based on identifying the bomb location with the greatest number of potential fragment locations it can search and the greatest variance of the distances it can identify (Near, Very Near, or Too Far). This will give the greatest amount of information to shape next moves. I arrived at this through the manual optimization of cases where some positions were already bombed. It generalized what I observed in the first-fragment clean mine as well.

The benefit of the approach is that it will work for new fragments in a bombed mine mine where a map will break down after the first fragment. It?s an open question whether there are possible improvements on the algorithm for already-bombed mines. For example, identifying the optimal approach when there are not enough bombs for a complete search. I haven?t had a chance to give thought to whether searching spaces with less available locations (bombed areas) offers any advantage over areas with more available locations (less bombed areas). More bombed areas will more quickly narrow down to a successful target, but have a lower chance of holding the target in the first place. I think this may come down to some machine learning approaches. Initial attempts to choose bombing sites based on reduced number of possible locations when bomb supply dwindles only decreased average number of hits.

Without making any adjustments for a small number of bombs, the algorithm that matches the fresh mine statistics in the original post find an average of 2.263 +/- 0.010 fragments in each mine. This based on 20,000 iterations.

I'm coding this in R and would be willing to share the scripts or perhaps package into a library if others are interested. I have a version that directs my bombing rather than simulating it, and I notice an increase in rounds with 3 successes while using it.

Cheers,
Z

zinj
04-22-15, 10:51 PM
Minor edit. Previous variance calculations included the 0 distance finding the target on the move in question. However this would not be a random variable when choosing the next move, which is what the search optimization is ultimately concerned with. Removing the zero distance location from the variance calculation increased the average number of fragments per mining session from 2.26 to 2.29 based on 10,000 iterations.

roguebee
07-29-15, 04:32 PM
grid from an iPad2
22221

grid from an iPhone 5S
22222

As you can see, the background pictures are the same, but there is a difference in the where the grids are located. If you have a different device, you will have to determine your grid to make best use of this Mining Guide

eva178
09-25-15, 01:37 AM
My mining simulator and search algorithm appears to be working. After an initial set of results that seemed soundly coded but improved more than expected on what I had arrived at through manual optimization, I took care of a couple bugs and I?m getting results that match the average of 4.7 bombs per first fragment described in the original post.

The search algorithm is based on identifying the bomb location with the greatest number of potential fragment locations it can search and the greatest variance of the distances it can identify (Near, Very Near, or Too Far). This will give the greatest amount of information to shape next moves. I arrived at this through the manual optimization of cases where some positions were already bombed. It generalized what I observed in the first-fragment clean mine as well.

The benefit of the approach is that it will work for new fragments in a bombed mine mine where a map will break down after the first fragment. It?s an open question whether there are possible improvements on the algorithm for already-bombed mines. For example, identifying the optimal approach when there are not enough bombs for a complete search. I haven?t had a chance to give thought to whether searching spaces with less available locations (bombed areas) offers any advantage over areas with more available locations (less bombed areas). More bombed areas will more quickly narrow down to a successful target, but have a lower chance of holding the target in the first place. I think this may come down to some machine learning approaches. Initial attempts to choose bombing sites based on reduced number of possible locations when bomb supply dwindles only decreased average number of hits.

Without making any adjustments for a small number of bombs, the algorithm that matches the fresh mine statistics in the original post find an average of 2.263 +/- 0.010 fragments in each mine. This based on 20,000 iterations.

I'm coding this in R and would be willing to share the scripts or perhaps package into a library if others are interested. I have a version that directs my bombing rather than simulating it, and I notice an increase in rounds with 3 successes while using it.

Cheers,
Z

I would like to see you're scripts and statistics of this mining strategy!
Send me a PM I your willing to share them, than can I give you my email address.
Thanks!

Shadowman8882
06-16-16, 04:01 AM
Hi, just came to know about yr strategy. Hvn't gone thru the entire thing as yet as I'm unable to open any of the images. Any suggestions on how to view the images. Many thx in advance

Haven4Us
03-05-17, 01:32 AM
Not sure what the problem is.....but I cannot see the grids & images. They are just a small empty square with rounded corners.

kooky panda
03-05-17, 11:20 AM
Not sure what the problem is.....but I cannot see the grids & images. They are just a small empty square with rounded corners.
Please try force closing and restarting your game.
You can also try deleting and reinstalling the game.

kalimont
05-04-17, 12:59 PM
Is there anything beyond mining when you are done with mining? I have left my last piece of island unmade so I can continue to get food and coins. I'm wondering if I'd be better off moving of if there is something better out there, or if it just ends?

Thank you in advance.

roguebee
05-10-17, 06:45 PM
Only reason to keep mine open is get parts for new dragons and food. Nothing else after that.

purple_58
05-12-17, 06:48 AM
After using up all of our island pieces why can't the mine stay open for food,coins,or even the occasional mystic map?? I didn't realise that I had opened my last piece of land or I most certainly wouldn't have done it and now I can't use that side of the mine! Which I feel this is totally unfair! Anyway it's just a suggestion for others who have made the same mistake as myself ;)

purple_58
05-14-17, 07:15 PM
After using up all of our island pieces why can't the mine stay open for food,coins,or even the occasional mystic map?? I didn't realise that I had opened my last piece of land or I most certainly wouldn't have done it and now I can't use that side of the mine! Which I feel this is totally unfair! Anyway it's just a suggestion for others who have made the same mistake as myself ;)
I was such an idiot if only I had read this forum first!!!! But I still think that the mine should stay open for food and coins��������