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kudukuda
05-05-14, 10:08 PM
So we all know that TL says they don't tinker with the drop rates:



... I want to once again chime in and let you know that we do NOT lower droprates, dynamically or otherwise, of items with the intention to force you all to buy stuff.

The only times we change droprates of items is to RAISE them (for recent examples see, dragon scales, manticore whisker, glimmer shards/fragments), when we start requiring these items more often.

Thanks :)

So here is my theory. Somehow the drop rates are connected to how many of an item you have in stock.
So let's say that the level is set at 20. If you go under that level you will get lower drop rates and if you go above it, your drop rates will be higher. This will cause the effect that we feel once we start using something from our inventory. As long as the level is high we feel good drops but the minute we start using the item, our levels drop below 20 and the drop rates go down.
TL doesn't have to tinker with the rates, it is built in.
I don't think they do this to make us buy stuff. Just to pace the game.
That's my theory.
Toughts?

glimmergate
05-06-14, 10:10 AM
So we all know that TL says they don't tinker with the drop rates:




So here is my theory. Somehow the drop rates are connected to how many of an item you have in stock.
So let's say that the level is set at 20. If you go under that level you will get lower drop rates and if you go above it, your drop rates will be higher. This will cause the effect that we feel once we start using something from our inventory. As long as the level is high we feel good drops but the minute we start using the item, our levels drop below 20 and the drop rates go down.
TL doesn't have to tinker with the rates, it is built in.
I don't think they do this to make us buy stuff. Just to pace the game.
That's my theory.
Toughts?

We don't have anything so sophisticated in place right now!

If a droprate for an item is 4%, then it's 4% for everyone, no matter what level you are, what you have in your inventory, what buildings you're trying to build, etc.

Right now I would say the biggest flaw with our loot system is that sometimes, even with a relatively high droprate like 40%, you can try many times and still fail (see: blades and hilts of light and darkness, garnet trinket, etc), if you get unlucky.

I can't promise anything unfortunately, however it's my goal to get in place a system that can help guard against this sort of thing - if I put a droprate in at 33%, then I want players to get it within a few tries! If you're trying 10 times and failing, then that's not good for anyone :(

I also want to note that while we can ADD extra loot when you're on a specific quest, our system does not support REMOVING or LOWERING loot when you're on a quest. Even if I wanted to (which I don't), we just cannot do that.

Loot is a huge part of this game. When it works well, it can be a lot of fun! But it sure can be frustrating if you get unlucky. I think our best bet is to work to fix the flaws in the system, and your feedback is super important for that.

Thanks everyone :)

stuffedmounts
05-06-14, 10:53 AM
Some people have several dragons and/or alicorns, while others are still struggling to get their first burning ember or wing. This to me sounds like a lamed drop system than anything automated or using math to adjust drop rates. The sad part is either way fixing it is not that much of a challenge. I've dealt with randomizing a number of times and in every case it was fairly easy to implement leveling to make sure the results were within acceptable specs, or auto-balanced. Nothing special required, even a mediocre programmer can deal with this. That being said, the only reason why the drop system is so inconsistent and unfair is because it's not a priority to fix it.

Queenzod
05-06-14, 10:54 AM
I don't know how programming works, but is there a way to increase the chances as you go along? So, you have the 40% drop rate for 1-10 tries, 50% drop rate for 11-15 tries, and up like that? So, if you've hit 30 tries, the drop rate is 100%. Or would that just mess everything up. Like I said, I don't know nothing 'bout birthing babies, Miss Scarlett.

shambalaya
05-06-14, 10:59 AM
Thank you Glimmergate! That was the most detailed and helpful explanation yet of how the droprate system works :-)

meme1098
05-06-14, 11:06 AM
Thank you Glimmergate! That was the most detailed and helpful explanation yet of how the droprate system works :-)

I also send my thanks, Glimmergate, for the time & effort spent to respond. I appreciate you & other TL staff listening and responding here and in the game to all our concerns.
Now I just need to battle 2 more of those elusive boars to move on in this quest.

doobievilla
05-06-14, 12:47 PM
Theory of Dropability

This is not to be confused with the fictitous Theory of Probability which was devised by old people who never played online games and drink tea at predetermined times during the day.

The Theory of Dropability states.. That if you want something and the item you want is sitting in NVRAM in the frontal lobe of your brain.. that item will not drop. Programmers who design these games have developed a highly intricate algorithm which detects this wanted item and then shifts its Dropability to a later time when that item is not wanted. So force close your brain and clear out all the wants resting in brain then use that precious energy and tap on the resource that will eventually deliver that most wanted want into your inventory. Glad I could clear this up for you guys.

Queenzod
05-06-14, 01:13 PM
Theory of Dropability

This is not to be confused with the fictitous Theory of Probability which was devised by old people who never played online games and drink tea at predetermined times during the day.

The Theory of Dropability states.. That if you want something and the item you want is sitting in NVRAM in the frontal lobe of your brain.. that item will not drop. Programmers who design these games have developed a highly intricate algorithm which detects this wanted item and then shifts its Dropability to a later time when that item is not wanted. So force close your brain and clear out all the wants resting in brain then use that precious energy and tap on the resource that will eventually deliver that most wanted want into your inventory. Glad I could clear this up for you guys.

That sounds like a timely-wimey thing!

55lee55
05-06-14, 01:24 PM
Thanks glimmegate for an enlightening explanation of how drop rates work!

55lee55
05-06-14, 01:46 PM
Theory of Dropability

This is not to be confused with the fictitous Theory of Probability which was devised by old people who never played online games and drink tea at predetermined times during the day..


As an old person for whom this is my first online community based game who also drinks tea at predetermined times during the day I see the humor in the Theory of Dropability, but I will stick with the Theory of Probability :p

In CS I have runs of good and bad luck, but usually my drop rate is refreshingly average. If anything I see a slight theoretical bias towards higher drop rates which increased markedly when I collected Knowledge Shards.

55lee55
05-06-14, 02:59 PM
Some people have several dragons and/or alicorns, while others are still struggling to get their first burning ember or wing. This to me sounds like a lamed drop system than anything automated or using math to adjust drop rates. The sad part is either way fixing it is not that much of a challenge. I've dealt with randomizing a number of times and in every case it was fairly easy to implement leveling to make sure the results were within acceptable specs, or auto-balanced. Nothing special required, even a mediocre programmer can deal with this. That being said, the only reason why the drop system is so inconsistent and unfair is because it's not a priority to fix it.

I don't understand stuffmounts. I read glimmergate's post as a straightforward explanation of how the drop rate works. I see it saying that the drop rate system isn't broken. The things you are complaining about are bad luck and frustration with and luck, and TL can't fix bad luck.

Experience helps because the more experience a person has within a game based in part on luck, the less each good or bad luck move counts as the number of moves increases. From what I read in the forums, very few people actually have these problems and many times they end up being due to an issue not related to drop rates. Cultivating patience is a good way to wait for rare drops. They are rare for everyone but frustration and impatience can make it feel like a run of bad luck is directed at certain individuals when it really isn't. It takes us all a long time to get rare drops. If we get them right away we are either extremely lucky or making more moves per day because we pay for them. I admit I pay for them. Everyone should have that option available. If they choose not to use it then they have to play until they get the item they want.

I would venture a guess that playing without paying can get very frustrating. If I pass someone who doesn't buy gems, yes I likely find rare drops in days or weeks instead of months and years, but if we break it down by number of moves instead of number of days, it evens out. I can also pay my way past a rough spot and again that option is there. If it takes someone a year and they don't have an item their game is not broken. They can buy gems and if it is not an option for them it is not TL keeping people from buying gems. It is a choice and sad that some need to play based on finding gems and waiting for energy recharge but it their personal issue and not a game flaw.

It simply isn't broken and there is nothing that needs to be fixed. I see your frustration with this but can you take reassurance in glimmergate's explanation?

stuffedmounts
05-06-14, 04:42 PM
I don't know how programming works, but is there a way to increase the chances as you go along? So, you have the 40% drop rate for 1-10 tries, 50% drop rate for 11-15 tries, and up like that? So, if you've hit 30 tries, the drop rate is 100%. Or would that just mess everything up. Like I said, I don't know nothing 'bout birthing babies, Miss Scarlett.
That wouldn't mess anything up and it would be very easy to implement. The issue isn't difficulty or design, it's the will to do it. I can only assume if they were motivated to make the drop system more fair & consistent, they would have done so by now.

stuffedmounts
05-06-14, 05:10 PM
I don't understand stuffmounts. I read glimmergate's post as a straightforward explanation of how the drop rate works. I see it saying that the drop rate system isn't broken. The things you are complaining about are bad luck and frustration with and luck, and TL can't fix bad luck.
First, what you think is pure "luck" is actually the result of a routine operating under set parameters/rules. In other words, the programmers dictate the outcome, even if it's randomized. Further, Glimmergate acknowledges flaws in the system, yet for some reason you don't think anything is broken. How did you arrive at that opinion given what I just said?


Experience helps because the more experience a person has within a game based in part on luck, the less each good or bad luck move counts as the number of moves increases. From what I read in the forums, very few people actually have these problems and many times they end up being due to an issue not related to drop rates. Cultivating patience is a good way to wait for rare drops. They are rare for everyone but frustration and impatience can make it feel like a run of bad luck is directed at certain individuals when it really isn't. It takes us all a long time to get rare drops. If we get them right away we are either extremely lucky or making more moves per day because we pay for them. I admit I pay for them. Everyone should have that option available. If they choose not to use it then they have to play until they get the item they want.
From what I read in the forums, some people get "rare" items like there's no tomorrow, while others get nothing after several months of dedicated work trying. You can't chalk that up to some people having `bad luck`. You only get those results when you're dealing with an unbalanced system. Your theory may sound good, but it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Again, Glimmergate acknowledged the system being flawed.


I would venture a guess that playing without paying can get very frustrating. If I pass someone who doesn't buy gems, yes I likely find rare drops in days or weeks instead of months and years, but if we break it down by number of moves instead of number of days, it evens out. I can also pay my way past a rough spot and again that option is there. If it takes someone a year and they don't have an item their game is not broken. They can buy gems and if it is not an option for them it is not TL keeping people from buying gems. It is a choice and sad that some need to play based on finding gems and waiting for energy recharge but it their personal issue and not a game flaw.
The fact that you can buy you way out of any roadblock in the game does not automagically mean the game is balanced and without flaws. If your game is losing players because of unfairness in gameplay and a list of unresolved issues, it would be in your best interest to hear peoples complaints rather than try to discredit them don't you think? Would you rather have people speaking positively about your game, or negatively? Would you rather grow your userbase, or shrink it? Thinking there isn't anything wrong will get you one of those paths, but it's not going to be the one you want.


It simply isn't broken and there is nothing that needs to be fixed. I see your frustration with this but can you take reassurance in glimmergate's explanation?
There are a whole lot of people who here who don't agree with your opinion that nothing is broken and nothing needs to be fixed. Glimmergate doesn't even agree with it considering, again, the acknowledgment of flaws. Glimmergate's reply is positive but not for anything you've said, in fact, it's the opposite -- admission that there are aspects to the system that aren't good for anyone, and things that need to be fixed.

doobievilla
05-06-14, 05:22 PM
Thats a bunch of words.. i can say for sure.. everything said above in one word.. Random....

kudukuda
05-07-14, 01:26 AM
We don't have anything so sophisticated in place right now!

If a droprate for an item is 4%, then it's 4% for everyone, no matter what level you are, what you have in your inventory, what buildings you're trying to build, etc.

Right now I would say the biggest flaw with our loot system is that sometimes, even with a relatively high droprate like 40%, you can try many times and still fail (see: blades and hilts of light and darkness, garnet trinket, etc), if you get unlucky.

I can't promise anything unfortunately, however it's my goal to get in place a system that can help guard against this sort of thing - if I put a droprate in at 33%, then I want players to get it within a few tries! If you're trying 10 times and failing, then that's not good for anyone :(

I also want to note that while we can ADD extra loot when you're on a specific quest, our system does not support REMOVING or LOWERING loot when you're on a quest. Even if I wanted to (which I don't), we just cannot do that.

Loot is a huge part of this game. When it works well, it can be a lot of fun! But it sure can be frustrating if you get unlucky. I think our best bet is to work to fix the flaws in the system, and your feedback is super important for that.

Thanks everyone :)

Thanks for this reply. I actually like the randomness of the game. It's part of what makes it fun. Then again, I am one of the lucky ones to have found an ember quickly. And since I have no love shack, wings and horns are not an issue.
I understand the possible flaws you are talking about. I read about the waitingand waiting and endless waitin on the forums. And still I dont feel TL istrying toforce us to buy anything. I am in no rush to finish the game.
Personally I prefertheweekly story updates, rather than"bug" fixes such as these and so I too would not prioritize the changing of the drop rate system. Even if you do want to see it differently in the future.

lunerasilver
05-08-14, 11:42 PM
Wanted to share my thoughts on this topic... I would say rare drops is one of my bigger frustrations with this game too. I really love Castle Story... But waiting for months can be sad! My husband is a software engineer and I have discussed this issue with him. The other day, he told me that the game is currently working on has a system in place to deal with this problem. The game keeps track of how many times you have not gotten the item an makes sure that if it hasn't dropped after a certain number of times (based on its percentage drop rate) it becomes a guaranteed drop. So, for example, if the drop rate is 20%, and it doesn't drop the first 4 times, it will definitely drop on the fifth. I think this is a great system, and I really hope you would consider putting something like this into action. This way players will have more confidence... I have all but given up hope on getting the night sword top... Been on MANY quests for that thing... I'm maxed on the other gate drops... and I really would rather use all those lanterns for expansions!!!

Jir67
05-09-14, 02:42 AM
Wanted to share my thoughts on this topic... I would say rare drops is one of my bigger frustrations with this game too. I really love Castle Story... But waiting for months can be sad! My husband is a software engineer and I have discussed this issue with him. The other day, he told me that the game is currently working on has a system in place to deal with this problem. The game keeps track of how many times you have not gotten the item an makes sure that if it hasn't dropped after a certain number of times (based on its percentage drop rate) it becomes a guaranteed drop. So, for example, if the drop rate is 20%, and it doesn't drop the first 4 times, it will definitely drop on the fifth. I think this is a great system, and I really hope you would consider putting something like this into action. This way players will have more confidence... I have all but given up hope on getting the night sword top... Been on MANY quests for that thing... I'm maxed on the other gate drops... and I really would rather use all those lanterns for expansions!!!

So if the drop rate is 2% you could have your "sure" drop after your first 40 times? It still will take a long long time!!!!!

I'm one of the lucky people founding the amber the second sand adventure, but I'm still waiting (months...) for alicorn parts...

as someone altrady write, this is one of the thing I like in this game...

55lee55
05-09-14, 10:28 AM
So if the drop rate is 2% you could have your "sure" drop after your first 40 times? It still will take a long long time!!!!!

I'm one of the lucky people founding the amber the second sand adventure, but I'm still waiting (months...) for alicorn parts...

as someone altrady write, this is one of the thing I like in this game...

Me too, and I don't see that the drop rate is broken nor would I want to see a guaranteed drop for every rare item. Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but the randomness is something some of us find charming about CS and if our progress became scripted where we all have to follow certain paths to move on for me that is when I will play for free but I will be looking for a different game to spend my money on.

What I would like to see is a free pass that we would earn based on a measurable variable such as level or experience, and not based on an inconsequential variable such as time spent looking for an item. Before someone tries to shoot me for the word "inconsequential", by this I mean that the amount of time in days or weeks spent is not a valid measurement because some may only be able to play once a day and some may be buying gems and playing often enough to level up every day or two like I do, so if we both spend a month to find an item, the person not buying gems and playing once a day has not spent nearly the amount of resources as I have to get the item, and I am more likely to find the item in question than someone who hasn't. Time spent in days, or months is not a valid measure of the effort spent to get an item, while the level or experience is because it is the same for everyone.

If we got a free pass crate, say for every ten level ups, that would give every player five free passes by the time they reach level 50, the current upper limit, and that should be plenty enough for anyone to buy their way out of quests with which they are having a personal run of bad luck, without changing the drop rate for everyone and maintaining individual choice to spend the time enjoying the fun of the chase so to speak without changing the drop rate at all. Then if someone complains about spending a year chasing a rare drop, that could not be blamed on a fault of the programing of the game, but more likely an impatience of a player who doesn't spend enough time taking turns to build experience. If someone used their free passes to get not so rare drops, they would be out of luck and would need to play to gain enough experience to gain their next free pass.

This is just an idea, not a demand, and there are most likely plenty of holes in it but at least it wouldn't require a change in drop rate of the game with which I suspect that the silent majority doesn't have a problem. It is a small minority who get a really really bad run of bad luck, and it stands to reason they would be the ones posting about their frustrations. I for one don't want to see a loss of the randomness of the game to satisfy a relatively few frustrated players who have not shown proof of making a reasonable effort to get rare drops. Again, it is important to remember that the amount of time spent is not a valid measurement of effort spent. I would be much more concerned if I saw a post from someone stating that they have leveled up eight times and have not received the item they need to continue on with the main storyline. I wouldn't be concerned until I saw ten level ups without getting a very rare drop for a quest outside the main storyline, and even more to never on waiting for a second or third very very rare drop. If someone has found one burning ember and used it to hatch an egg, that is it folks, you've done it. That others are lucky and have found more doesn't mean that everyone has or even will. I have seen posts shouting Woohoo for getting 100 energy from their Pink Alicorn, and I have never had that drop. That doesn't mean that I can post angry words because neither of mine have dropped that particular rare drop yet and they may never drop it but that doesn't mean the drop rate is broken.

Sorry, but while I empathize with frustration about trying multiple times for very rare drops like extra burning embers, some, but by no means all of us who pay for a game that supports those who want to play for free don't want to see a change in drop rates because it is fine the way it is for most of us and we like the way the game plays as is. There is no stated or implied entitlement in the agreement we all agreed to when we first opened this game, to give anyone, especially nonpaying players, a guarantee of satisfaction with drop rates. If I remember this is a for-pay game that is provided "as is".

I don't see that tweaking drop rates is a priority for the majority of players and those who are seeing conspiracy around every corner aren't providing any legitimate proof of either TL targeting certain players, or proof that there is a significant problem with the drop rate. Is there room for improvement? Yes! Is it broken? No, the game is functional for most players, and TL addresses bugs and individual problems as promptly as possible.

Although it is amusing to see a post that says "Ancient aliens stole my burning ember!" or similar, and making such posts is a healthy way to express frustration, I don't see any reason for TL to drop everything to fix something that despite the understandable frustrations with it for those who don't play much.

Show me proof based on something that is the same for everyone such as experience points, and not based on something not the same for everyone such as time they spend in days to get any rare item, and I will change my mind. But stating that there are many people spending months trying for rare drops is not enough to convince me, or apparently TL, that there is anything broken that needs to be fixed.

Like it or not TL is a for profit company, not a charitable organization and they are kindly providing a method for those of us unable or unwilling to pay to play a for-pay game a method to play for free. Instead of bashing them over drop rates that aren't broken, there should be posts of gratitude from those who get free gems to play with and just because it takes longer and is harder for non-paying players, doesn't mean anything is broken. There probably are such posts in other threads. If it was as fast and easy to play for free instead of paying to play no one would pay to play and if no one paid to play TL would rightly stop supporting the game. Instead of bashing those of us who do pay to play there should be gratitude posts as well, because we are the ones paying for this awesome game and the support for the game so TL can provide it for free to nonpaying players.

As the little old lady said before many of us were born, "Where's the beef!?"

manu90ela
05-10-14, 09:13 AM
Me too, and I don't see that the drop rate is broken nor would I want to see a guaranteed drop for every rare item. Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but the randomness is something some of us find charming about CS and if our progress became scripted where we all have to follow certain paths to move on for me that is when I will play for free but I will be looking for a different game to spend my money on.

What I would like to see is a free pass that we would earn based on a measurable variable such as level or experience, and not based on an inconsequential variable such as time spent looking for an item. Before someone tries to shoot me for the word "inconsequential", by this I mean that the amount of time in days or weeks spent is not a valid measurement because some may only be able to play once a day and some may be buying gems and playing often enough to level up every day or two like I do, so if we both spend a month to find an item, the person not buying gems and playing once a day has not spent nearly the amount of resources as I have to get the item, and I am more likely to find the item in question than someone who hasn't. Time spent in days, or months is not a valid measure of the effort spent to get an item, while the level or experience is because it is the same for everyone.

If we got a free pass crate, say for every ten level ups, that would give every player five free passes by the time they reach level 50, the current upper limit, and that should be plenty enough for anyone to buy their way out of quests with which they are having a personal run of bad luck, without changing the drop rate for everyone and maintaining individual choice to spend the time enjoying the fun of the chase so to speak without changing the drop rate at all. Then if someone complains about spending a year chasing a rare drop, that could not be blamed on a fault of the programing of the game, but more likely an impatience of a player who doesn't spend enough time taking turns to build experience. If someone used their free passes to get not so rare drops, they would be out of luck and would need to play to gain enough experience to gain their next free pass.

This is just an idea, not a demand, and there are most likely plenty of holes in it but at least it wouldn't require a change in drop rate of the game with which I suspect that the silent majority doesn't have a problem. It is a small minority who get a really really bad run of bad luck, and it stands to reason they would be the ones posting about their frustrations. I for one don't want to see a loss of the randomness of the game to satisfy a relatively few frustrated players who have not shown proof of making a reasonable effort to get rare drops. Again, it is important to remember that the amount of time spent is not a valid measurement of effort spent. I would be much more concerned if I saw a post from someone stating that they have leveled up eight times and have not received the item they need to continue on with the main storyline. I wouldn't be concerned until I saw ten level ups without getting a very rare drop for a quest outside the main storyline, and even more to never on waiting for a second or third very very rare drop. If someone has found one burning ember and used it to hatch an egg, that is it folks, you've done it. That others are lucky and have found more doesn't mean that everyone has or even will. I have seen posts shouting Woohoo for getting 100 energy from their Pink Alicorn, and I have never had that drop. That doesn't mean that I can post angry words because neither of mine have dropped that particular rare drop yet and they may never drop it but that doesn't mean the drop rate is broken.

Sorry, but while I empathize with frustration about trying multiple times for very rare drops like extra burning embers, some, but by no means all of us who pay for a game that supports those who want to play for free don't want to see a change in drop rates because it is fine the way it is for most of us and we like the way the game plays as is. There is no stated or implied entitlement in the agreement we all agreed to when we first opened this game, to give anyone, especially nonpaying players, a guarantee of satisfaction with drop rates. If I remember this is a for-pay game that is provided "as is".

I don't see that tweaking drop rates is a priority for the majority of players and those who are seeing conspiracy around every corner aren't providing any legitimate proof of either TL targeting certain players, or proof that there is a significant problem with the drop rate. Is there room for improvement? Yes! Is it broken? No, the game is functional for most players, and TL addresses bugs and individual problems as promptly as possible.

Although it is amusing to see a post that says "Ancient aliens stole my burning ember!" or similar, and making such posts is a healthy way to express frustration, I don't see any reason for TL to drop everything to fix something that despite the understandable frustrations with it for those who don't play much.

Show me proof based on something that is the same for everyone such as experience points, and not based on something not the same for everyone such as time they spend in days to get any rare item, and I will change my mind. But stating that there are many people spending months trying for rare drops is not enough to convince me, or apparently TL, that there is anything broken that needs to be fixed.

Like it or not TL is a for profit company, not a charitable organization and they are kindly providing a method for those of us unable or unwilling to pay to play a for-pay game a method to play for free. Instead of bashing them over drop rates that aren't broken, there should be posts of gratitude from those who get free gems to play with and just because it takes longer and is harder for non-paying players, doesn't mean anything is broken. There probably are such posts in other threads. If it was as fast and easy to play for free instead of paying to play no one would pay to play and if no one paid to play TL would rightly stop supporting the game. Instead of bashing those of us who do pay to play there should be gratitude posts as well, because we are the ones paying for this awesome game and the support for the game so TL can provide it for free to nonpaying players.

As the little old lady said before many of us were born, "Where's the beef!?"


You are probably right if you say the game can't be as easy for those who buy gems as for those who don't. I have to say that I bought gems too. But this has nothing to do with that in my opinion.
I don't understand what your problem would be if they fixed the issue with rare drops with the method lunerasilver posted.
If you need a proof of the effort someone made to get a certain rare drop then changing drop rates with this method shouldn't bother you.
You would only get the rare drop for sure if you tried a certain number of times. Like for the burning ember you would need to go on maybe at least 50 adventures. Others can be lucky and get it earlier. But I think thats enough proof of effort. It has nothing to do with time. If I need 5 month to make 50 adventures than it will take at least 5 month, if I do adventures every day then it will take me max 50 days. it still depends on me if we speak of time.
If I check my deep mines for adamant and I can be sure that it does drop after lets say 40 times I still have to click on them 40 times. If I take 5 month for that or one month that depends on me and if I maybe choose to speed up or not. I don't know if you get my point.
It's still random with the only difference that we all know that we will get it eventually.... and not never!!
So I can't understand why someone would'nt want drop rates to change this way??

55lee55
05-10-14, 01:35 PM
So I can't understand why someone would'nt want drop rates to change this way??

Please don't attribute something to me that I didn't say. I get enough questions about the things I do say.

The following comments are a generalized commentary and are not directed at manu90ela. This is a summary of my feelings about the drop rates.

I can see humor in the type of posts that propose out-of-this-world conspiracy theories but I don't take them seriously.

This supposed flaw in drop rates has been noted by glimmergate. At this point we have done all we can do as players of Castle Story. I don't work for TL so it shouldn't bother anyone if I have a different opinion from someone else in this forum. Is there some compelling reason why we all need to be unanimous in accusing TL of some kind of underhandedness surrounding this topic?

To clarify and state for the record so there is no further confusion about what I am saying, I am not saying that if TL decides to tweaks drop rates in a future update it would be a necessarily pose a problem. It is their game, they can do what they want with it. They can retire it and start another game and considering that, I say enjoy it while you have it.

What I am saying is that the drop rate, as it is, is not broken. You, I and my Aunt Fanny can play until this game is wherever old games go to die and not everyone of us is going to get all of the very rare drops and we don't need them to play the game! If we need one for a main quest we will get it within a reasonable number of tries. We are not guaranteed additional very very rare drops even if our neighbor's son's dog knows a cat whose owner says they play CS and they have 102 burning embers! If you've found one, that's it, you're done, move on. If you get another fine, but there is no entitlement!

I don't have a problem with certain items being so rare that getting them after the first time they are found to complete a quest is a Woohoo moment and something that may never happen in the foreseeable future for most people. Yes, that is never. There is no entitlement for non paying players to demand future drops of rare items, even first time items in a non-vital quest. It is a wonderful WooHoo and very awesome especially if one is fortunate enough to get a very rare drop without spending money because the drop rate is purposely very low so that even paying players have items that are hard to find.

That being said, these items should not be impossible for anyone to get, and guess what? There are plenty of us who do pay for this game who do get rare drops. Not everyone who plays slot machines hits the progressive jackpot but that doesn't make them broken, or not fun to play for that matter. Our chance of getting them should never be zero and no one has proven to TL (note I am not saying you need to convince me) that no one gets these drops.

Further, although I think I made this point, I will reiterate that we are players of a for play game and TL employs qualified programmers who are able to fix anything that is broken, so no I don't support demands that TL take programming directions from someone who professes to say that they can fix it, and this goes as well for those whose husband's tell them it can be fixed in a certain way. Certainly if someone is qualified they can apply for a programming job with TL but these forums are not job interviews. We play someone else's game. We don't have to play it if we don't like it. Certainly we can report any bug we come upon. We can complain till the cows come home in these forums, but what we can't reasonably do is expect TL to change one thing that makes this game a challenge for paying players, and these, no matter how much personal awe I have for those who reach where I am without paying money, are TL's target audience.

What we have no right to do is demand that someone else, even if we play their game, make changes in their program to please a few disgruntled play for free players. I say to those frustrated for free players that among my neighbors are more than one player who has maxed out on their levels without paying so it can be done. Granted, it requires much patience and perseverance and might be very much harder to do for nonpaying players. The very fact that nonpaying players have successfully reached the highest level is proof it can be done as the game is now.

What might not happen is that everyone get every rare drop, even those who pay to play. I love the randomness of rare drops. I like being surprised by getting something not everyone has. Rare drops are guaranteed for the main storyline, even if as with the Garnet for the Goddess Tree Trinket part of the storyline is that the fairies try to keep you from crafting it and the chance of succeeding drops after a certain time. Stressful? You bet! It is part of the excitement of the storyline. I think that TL would fix any drop rate that stops all players from succeeding but I don't mind either having patience to wait it out or paying past it.

That is why I made the suggestion to have free pass crates, for those who don't feel they can wait. Even then that would require some effort on a non paying player to achieve and should be available to everyone. I also made it clear that it was a suggestion, not an ultimatum that TL change their game or I won't play. I actually said something close to the opposite, that if the randomness is removed and game play becomes scripted, I will still play, but I will spend money on games that have the randomness that makes games exciting for me personally.

From experience I can state that I have completed every quest I have been given that was not a timed quest for extra stuff (although I don't recall any ever running out on me before I have finished at least once, at least the ones I have been given) has dropped the quest item within a reasonable number of turns. The two I have not finished are the new Belladonna quest which is a long term quest (there are already complaints just three days into it that it is too hard), and the Pool Party level up to level 9. I just leveled up to Level 44 in Castle Story this morning. I pay to play sometimes, and other times I pinch pennies. My kingdom is fully expanded. Even so, i am a player of this game as is just like everyone else. I only got one dragon egg and I have had a burning ember sitting in my inventory and it has been there for quite some time. If I choose I can wait for another egg drop or I can spend the gems to buy an egg. I may never get another egg and despite the money I have spent on this game I am not entitled to it! Neither is anyone else.

I support What TL is doing and I don't have a problem with saying so. They make an awesome game where I spend much of my monthly recreation budget, and I spend my money here because I love the game.

No one is making me do or say anything and I vote with my money which I can choose to spend elsewhere, but as of today I am pleased with this game. I also realize that no matter how what my opinions may be, whether I stay or not will not make a bit of difference to TL or anyone else. I am one of very many and although there are occasional posts which claim to represent many players, ultimately no one can represent anyone but themselves and none of us is more important than any other.

So no if you read my prior posts and this one you you will see that I do not support demanding that TL make the changes put forth by lunerasilver or anyone else and why. I don't know if I can say it in any more detail than this. I am firmly in the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it camp and willing to change my mind if you show proof why I should, but not just because anyone says so. If you don't understand my reasoning, or don't agree for any reason, let 's agree to disagree.

Please remember that although as a player I support the creators of my favorite game, I don't demand that anyone else does, although I question why anyone would play a game they hate or suspect of dishonesty in gameplay.

manu90ela
05-10-14, 02:34 PM
So I agree to disagree. ;)
By the way I never said that I hate the game or even suspect of dishonesty.... if anything I love it and I'm addicted to it, but that doesn't mean that some changes wouldn't make it even better.
And that is my opinion because I only speak for myself. ;)

jptheripper
05-10-14, 03:42 PM
As a developer, i want to offer a suggestion to solve this.

Say you have a new sword is a drop. That drop is 10%.

If you want a max of 20 chances before someone gets it, just drop a an item (sword piece) with 100% rate, and add a craft in the workshop to build the sword with 20 pieces. That way after 20 tries you are guaranteed the item, but you might get it sooner.

You can make the sword pieces 1000s of gems, so people cant skip (or shouldnt) skip it.

The only flaw I see in this is it "exposes" the drop rate by showing how many pieces it would take.

maguar
05-11-14, 01:54 PM
Ok everyone, this thread has been getting too personal. Lets bring it back to theories on drop rates

roguebee
05-11-14, 07:02 PM
What little hard evidence I have would indicate no change in drop rates for quests. A lot of us were intensely wool gathering recently. I know I can remember prior to the need for the 140 wool, that I saw (and ignored) a lot of notices I was full of wool from the stables, wasn't collecting from my one sheep and was maxed out. My 99 wool went quickly and I was counting the wool as I aggressively collected from 2 stables and the poor sheep. It took about 4 days to collect the 41 wool with these resources. I've kept count since then and have as aggressively sheared my poor sheep as I needed the wool for steps in 2 more quests. It is still running about 10 wool per day. I'll probably keep up the count until I do the baron's Scarecrow. Whether the time interval is significant enough, I'll let you decide. I'm satisfied based on my small sample.

55lee55
05-12-14, 12:40 AM
What little hard evidence I have would indicate no change in drop rates for quests. A lot of us were intensely wool gathering recently. I know I can remember prior to the need for the 140 wool, that I saw (and ignored) a lot of notices I was full of wool from the stables, wasn't collecting from my one sheep and was maxed out. My 99 wool went quickly and I was counting the wool as I aggressively collected from 2 stables and the poor sheep. It took about 4 days to collect the 41 wool with these resources. I've kept count since then and have as aggressively sheared my poor sheep as I needed the wool for steps in 2 more quests. It is still running about 10 wool per day. I'll probably keep up the count until I do the baron's Scarecrow. Whether the time interval is significant enough, I'll let you decide. I'm satisfied based on my small sample.

Yes!

I agree. This is similar to my experience. I have plenty of farm animals and I set them to grazing as soon as I see a need for them. I usually keep extras in storage.

Wow, I can't even imagine building up a large kingdom by relying on one sheep. Amazing!

freesiawoods
05-12-14, 07:01 AM
We don't have anything so sophisticated in place right now!

If a droprate for an item is 4%, then it's 4% for everyone, no matter what level you are, what you have in your inventory, what buildings you're trying to build, etc.

Right now I would say the biggest flaw with our loot system is that sometimes, even with a relatively high droprate like 40%, you can try many times and still fail (see: blades and hilts of light and darkness, garnet trinket, etc), if you get unlucky.

I can't promise anything unfortunately, however it's my goal to get in place a system that can help guard against this sort of thing - if I put a droprate in at 33%, then I want players to get it within a few tries! If you're trying 10 times and failing, then that's not good for anyone :(

I also want to note that while we can ADD extra loot when you're on a specific quest, our system does not support REMOVING or LOWERING loot when you're on a quest. Even if I wanted to (which I don't), we just cannot do that.

Loot is a huge part of this game. When it works well, it can be a lot of fun! But it sure can be frustrating if you get unlucky. I think our best bet is to work to fix the flaws in the system, and your feedback is super important for that.

Thanks everyone :)

That would be wonderful! Thinking back on my horribly long wait for Alicorn parts, it would make the game so much better. In any case I am heartened to know that our game designers are such sensible folks. Thank you!

stuffedmounts
05-12-14, 08:14 AM
That would be wonderful! Thinking back on my horribly long wait for Alicorn parts, it would make the game so much better. In any case I am heartened to know that our game designers are such sensible folks. Thank you!
Agreed. It's much better than ignoring the pleas of players and pretending there's nothing wrong. These issues are nothing new and it's good to have them acknowledged.

tanbi1
05-13-14, 02:26 AM
I'm still waiting for Alicorn part number ONE after 15 months of daily play, as everyone well knows, as I moan about it at regular intervals!!!

tanbi1
05-13-14, 02:28 AM
I don't have a theory as to why, but I'd love a resolution!!!

tanbi1
05-13-14, 02:31 AM
15 months in and I haven't gotten a single Alicorn part. I play daily. I send out adventures daily.

SpiritWind00
05-13-14, 03:55 AM
15 months in and I haven't gotten a single Alicorn part. I play daily. I send out adventures daily.

Tanbi, i feel your pain... Have you tried doing the valentine adventures again. Might be worth a try!

TL, this is very sad that so long has past since this goal and there are still players who don't have the ability to craft their alicorn as they are waiting for the rarest of rare drops. Please give Tanbi a wing and horn.... It seems incredibly unfair. There should be a maximum amt of adventures you have to do before they drop.

shambalaya
05-13-14, 04:22 AM
Wow, so sorry to hear that tanbi1. As far as I know there's an equal droprate from all adventures (I don't know if they drop from the new feral lands adventure though?), so I would not focus on the Valentines adventure, since the other drops from this adventure are not very interesting. Maybe a silly question, but do you have the "mythic alicorn" quest active? The alicorn parts only drop if you've reached this last step of the valentines quest line.

tanbi1
05-13-14, 05:12 AM
The quest is active, and I have been looking at it for 15 months! Just sitting there. On one of my regular moans I did ask if they could just remove it!! I hate looking at it :(

tanbi1
05-13-14, 05:15 AM
I do the valentine adventure every now and then just in case, but then it only rewards valentine items...(no wing or horn) which I don't need. But I try in vain, I do all the adventures.

55lee55
05-14-14, 07:35 AM
Tanbi, i feel your pain... Have you tried doing the valentine adventures again. Might be worth a try!

TL, this is very sad that so long has past since this goal and there are still players who don't have the ability to craft their alicorn as they are waiting for the rarest of rare drops. Please give Tanbi a wing and horn.... It seems incredibly unfair. There should be a maximum amt of adventures you have to do before they drop.

I agree that to do the original quest there should be a maximum number of turns then a guaranteed drop.

This seems very unfair to leave someone hanging like this with unfinished business in their quest book.

This doesn't change my opinion on rare drops because this situation is an attempt to finish a quest, not trying to increase the beastie count for players who are waiting for second very rare drops. I had been sitting on a burning ember since I finished the dragon egg quest, and yesterday when I collected from my roost, a shiny new dragon egg popped out, and it is now being toasted in my forge for two days then I will get a second baby dragon from there. I got the first set of materials for this quest in a reasonable time, and that is what Tanbi is waiting for on the Alicorn quest and it didn't happen the first time. No matter how rare the drop is, the first one should happen in a reasonable time, but there should be no guarantees for the second, third or subsequent tries. When it happens, like with my dragon egg yesterday, it happens. Since the game is fully supported and continuing, there is no one who can say they never get a second very rare drop yet, because it is always a possibility. Two days ago I hadn't had a second dragon egg drop. Then it did. Some people have had more eggs and embers than I had, and some are still waiting. That is fine.

The situation Tanbi is dealing with is entirely different from my wait for a second dragon egg, and it is sad and not cool at all. I add my entreaty in with SpiritWind00's. TL please give Tanbi a wing and a horn. Tanbi has given it a reasonable try and then some. Thanks!

I realize Tanbi asked for a way to skip this quest, but that seems like it would add insult to injury. After investing so much effort on this I think Tanbi should get the wing and horn!

stuffedmounts
05-14-14, 08:54 AM
Tanbi, i feel your pain... Have you tried doing the valentine adventures again. Might be worth a try!

TL, this is very sad that so long has past since this goal and there are still players who don't have the ability to craft their alicorn as they are waiting for the rarest of rare drops. Please give Tanbi a wing and horn.... It seems incredibly unfair. There should be a maximum amt of adventures you have to do before they drop.
The problem doesn't stop with alicorn parts. People have complained that they've never received the burning ember, which is needed to hatch a dragon. A dragon is needed for dragon scales. Dragon scales are need to craft things necessary to finish the Greselda quest where you build her castle. Subsequently, you need to complete that quest line before you can complete other quests.

As I've said previously, when an item is required for quest progression, and the absence of that item is further preventing the player from moving forward in the game in general, they should be thrown a bone. Nobody should have to go countless gaming sessions months on end and have nothing to show for it. That type of unbalance is unfair and ruins the entertainment value of the game.

roguebee
05-14-14, 10:01 AM
What little hard evidence I have would indicate no change in drop rates for quests. A lot of us were intensely wool gathering recently. I know I can remember prior to the need for the 140 wool, that I saw (and ignored) a lot of notices I was full of wool from the stables, wasn't collecting from my one sheep and was maxed out. My 99 wool went quickly and I was counting the wool as I aggressively collected from 2 stables and the poor sheep. It took about 4 days to collect the 41 wool with these resources. I've kept count since then and have as aggressively sheared my poor sheep as I needed the wool for steps in 2 more quests. It is still running about 10 wool per day. I'll probably keep up the count until I do the baron's Scarecrow. Whether the time interval is significant enough, I'll let you decide. I'm satisfied based on my small sample.

The sheep has earned himself a vacation. I'm done with collecting and giving away wool. It ended up being 136 over 13 days.

55lee55
05-14-14, 11:11 AM
The problem doesn't stop with alicorn parts. People have complained that they've never received the burning ember, which is needed to hatch a dragon. A dragon is needed for dragon scales. Dragon scales are need to craft things necessary to finish the Greselda quest where you build her castle. Subsequently, you need to complete that quest line before you can complete other quests.

As I've said previously, when an item is required for quest progression, and the absence of that item is further preventing the player from moving forward in the game in general, they should be thrown a bone. Nobody should have to go countless gaming sessions months on end and have nothing to show for it. That type of unbalance is unfair and ruins the entertainment value of the game.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you to say that the unbalance was in general drop rates for rare items, but yes I agree with what you have said here.

I am still against guaranteeing a drop of any item that has been acquired to a quest after the minimum is received. Outside of the main quest there is no entitlement to get an extra burning ember or dragon's egg no matter how long someone has wanted one, no matter that only having one dragon because someone doesn't want to buy one might make it harder to accumulate scales, and no guarantee of extras because someone else has been lucky and found ten eggs and ten burning embers. No one should be unable to progress in a main storyline quest if the completion of the request is required to trigger the next part. It sucks the fun out of the game if ya can't move forward. Since many of us have successfully completed the alicorn thread and the dragon egg thread, I would suggest contacting TL to make sure there are no user or equipment errors, and that TL deal with each case as it happens rather than waiting a year to find out why it seems stuck. If everything checks out I wouldn't have a problem if TL gave the item needed once it brought the game to a screeching halt. I don't think spending excess time on these quests happens for the majority, but apparently it happens for some, but even if it happened to one, it needs to be made right for that person in a reasonable number of tries. If it takes a year to get those tries completed, or a day, once the game stalls I believe that it needs to be made right because as stuffedmoumts says, it ruins the entertainment value of the game.

But I agree with what stuffedmounts says here and I missed where it was said earlier. I will be the first to admit I haven't read every post in every thread. I can speak to this and throw my support behind it.

tanbi1
06-09-14, 02:36 PM
16 months now.

hadassa120
09-03-14, 10:12 PM
help with the clerks mistake fortune,,, help send a letter to Belladonna, how do you be super charming to the clerks and just be natural, no, don't go mooooooo

PurpleScorpion76
09-04-14, 12:04 AM
That sounds like a timely-wimey thing!

Hehehe!