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View Full Version : Patch Notes - December 5, 2013.



FrozenTurtle
12-05-13, 04:06 PM
http://i.imgur.com/p3LzflO.png

Hey everyone, I've included a list of today's changes in this post. These changes apply to all versions, but remember that not all versions will have the same available units. We recommend upgrading to the most currently version, Kingdom Clash 1.3.3 (https://itunes.apple.com/app/id638320037?mt=8&at=10l3QL&ct=forum), which you can find in the App Store.

Troops

Warrior

Increased cost to train.

Archer

Increased cost to train.

Dragon

Increased damage per second.
Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.

Knight

Increased damage per second.
Increased hit points.
Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.

Demolitionist

Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.

Assassin

Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.

Summoner

Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.

Airship

Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.

White Mage

Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.

Ice Wizard

Decreased train time.
Decreased cost to train.


Defense

Fireball Catapult

Increased damage.
Decreased attack speed.

Lightning Cannon

Will now target particular units rather than unit locations.


Other

Unit Pathing

Improvements to pathing and target selection.

tiedyetim
12-05-13, 05:03 PM
You forgot to include thief nerf. Now that I spent the time and stones to train to level 5, oh yeah and the gems to speed up, they die with 2 shots from a level 2 cannon and tower.

What is going on here?!?!

mybaby1977
12-05-13, 06:03 PM
I was stoked that demolitionists take less time to create but then I used them for the first time after this update and all 22 of them attacked a farther wall than my intended target! They ran diagonally to a wall that was about 5 squares away when the wall I wanted them to attack was straight in front of them, about 2 squares. I lost 33 crowns thanks to the wrong wall being opened up. Did these guys get the same training that the archers got in the last few updates?

redrockstar
12-05-13, 06:05 PM
You obviously have a lot more path improvements to do because the archers are still incredibly stupid.

mybaby1977
12-05-13, 06:14 PM
Ok, did defensive guns get super strong? A base I had beaten before (quite easily) just completely crushed my group in almost no time, and the archers pathing is all messed up again. I've lost 70 crowns since the upgrade. Before the upgrade, I was on a 200+ crown winning streak. This is sad.

mybaby1977
12-05-13, 06:16 PM
You obviously have a lot more path improvements to do because the archers are still incredibly stupid.
Archers pathing actually got worse, and they appear to die much faster now. Also, my lvl4 bears that are normally near invincible looked like they took friendly fire from my demolitionists and died quite fast. Things have been downhill for me since this new version came out.

mybaby1977
12-05-13, 06:54 PM
I confirmed my suspicion. Demolitionists are now attacking farther walls - mods can replay my battle if they wish. Once again, instead of taking a straight path to the nearest wall, they went slightly diagonal after a farther wall. Two things in common both times this happened, there was a trap in their way and the farther wall had a buidling closer to it. Lost 4 in a row since upgrade, -116 crowns. Before the upgrade, I was on a 20+ game winning streak.

redrockstar
12-05-13, 07:28 PM
They made it impossible to win now. Good job.

soicon
12-05-13, 07:45 PM
They made it impossible to win now. Good job.

agreed. Today i woke up and fight very weak guy. 100 arhcer die easily because of the fireball. Impossible to win now except very strong guys with special troops

Adjie8
12-05-13, 10:32 PM
They made it impossible to win now. Good job.


I won dude but I admitted that so difficult

mybaby1977
12-05-13, 11:16 PM
Ok Firemocha, time to come clean again. You guys nerfed every basic troop unit so that players will be forced to use advanced units. My entire alliance is on chat talking about much weaker bears, warriors, and archers. We're all scared to attack bases that we used to overrun with complete confidence. I am one of 3 who have lost over 100 crowns ONLY since today's changes, and all of us used to be very good at gaining crowns. Are you protecting the top 10 players because they appear to be the only ones not losing crowns when I peruse the ranks.

mybaby1977
12-06-13, 12:20 AM
I figured out the problem. The fireball catapult even before upgrading now causes 62 damage to a large group of ground troops. So, two balls can wipe out most archers in an area. That and the lasers being more selective with targets now kills troops pretty fast. This is a major change and kills my strategy as well as many other people's. I'm not just talking about players who spam with warriors and archers, but anyone who uses primarily ground forces. Is the plan to turn this game into some type of castle defense game where offense is extremely handicapped? I've stopped playing now but will check in from time to time to see if the damage is reverted back to reasonable amounts.

syllrag
12-06-13, 12:29 AM
Ok Firemocha, time to come clean again. You guys nerfed every basic troop unit so that players will be forced to use advanced units. My entire alliance is on chat talking about much weaker bears, warriors, and archers. We're all scared to attack bases that we used to overrun with complete confidence. I am one of 3 who have lost over 100 crowns ONLY since today's changes, and all of us used to be very good at gaining crowns. Are you protecting the top 10 players because they appear to be the only ones not losing crowns when I peruse the ranks.

I figured out the problem. The fireball catapult even before upgrading now causes 62 damage to a large group of ground troops. So, two balls can wipe out most archers in an area. That and the lasers being more selective with targets now kills troops pretty fast. This is a major change and kills my strategy as well as many other people's. I'm not just talking about players who spam with warriors and archers, but anyone who uses primarily ground forces. Is the plan to turn this game into some type of castle defense game where offense is extremely handicapped? I've stopped playing now but will check in from time to time to see if the damage is reverted back to reasonable amounts.

How about trying knights with mages and dragons, that's also an option.

mybaby1977
12-06-13, 12:40 AM
Syllrag, I haven't quite gotten there yet but by the time I get to that level, I'm sure the game developers will do something to hinder that approach too. Every time I adjust my attacks because of nerfing and poor unit intelligence, Firemocha finds away to deem it all useless. Also, I like to attack quick and not wait for units to spawn. And whoa, lightning towers now cause 132 damage in lvl1 form!!

madcool8
12-06-13, 01:35 AM
Yeah the Catapults and Lighting tower is way too INSANELY powerful!

Also I was hit with a "maintenance" error message and have not been able to log on for the past 6+ hours. Highly disappointed. This was after I updated the game and in the middle of my 4th raid.

madcool8
12-06-13, 01:40 AM
I can't seem to edit my previous message so I'll add another annoyance. I REALLY HATE how the DONATE buttons pop up now in chat. It makes me not wanna chat in the alliance chat. plus do we really need to see the alliance name in alliance chat? Way to make the game so much worse.

syllrag
12-06-13, 01:47 AM
I figured out the problem. The fireball catapult even before upgrading now causes 62 damage to a large group of ground troops. So, two balls can wipe out most archers in an area. That and the lasers being more selective with targets now kills troops pretty fast. This is a major change and kills my strategy as well as many other people's. I'm not just talking about players who spam with warriors and archers, but anyone who uses primarily ground forces. Is the plan to turn this game into some type of castle defense game where offense is extremely handicapped? I've stopped playing now but will check in from time to time to see if the damage is reverted back to reasonable amounts.

Yeah the Catapults and Lighting tower is way too INSANELY powerful!

Also I was hit with a "maintenance" error message and have not been able to log on for the past 6+ hours. Highly disappointed. This was after I updated the game and in the middle of my 4th raid.

Oh yeah, I just saw that a lv5 catapult deals 99 dmg. That's one hit kill to a group of lv5 archers (95 HP) and two hits kill to a group of lv4 warriors (184 HP). And a lv4 lightning deals 194 dmg. That's one hit kills to both lv5 archer and lv4 warrior groups.

MeisterLampee
12-06-13, 03:49 AM
Yeah the Catapults and Lighting tower is way too INSANELY powerful!
I second that: Those two got very powerful. It feels like its damage is now 5 times higher.

Well, I am not judging already if those changes are good or not. I appreciate a lot that the elite troops (mages - dragons) have faster building times. It makes the game much more tactical. Why not making them even faster.

Until now the stronger Catapults and Lightning towers seem to be good news. Before I could deploy 220 archers on one place and wait until they overrun the strong LV8 wall base, what is not very challenging. Now we have to act more intelligent. I find that super. Maybe we will find ways to attack now more differentiated, so we still can beat strong bases.

My maintenance time was 5 minutes. What is really fast! *thumbsup*

@Turtle: Thanks for the release notes! (Did you forget to mention the more damage of lightning towers) :-)

mybaby1977
12-06-13, 05:37 AM
MeisterLampee, I think you make some good points about the stronger defenses being a good thing but I also think they are a very bad thing. Since the fireballs now make the demolitionists, archers, and warriors useless, most tactics requiring them are now obsolete. You don't even have to know how to place cannons anymore to beat an offense if you have upgraded fireballs and lightning towers. The stronger defense against ground units also now force everyone to play the same mixed ground/air offense. Those like me (lvl32) now have to race to upgrade our buildings and air units so we can even begin to start competing again. But, the 0-crown fights hinder that progress because we get our resources taken daily by farmers. Before this change to the towers, I was very tactical with ground units and that helped me take many many higher lvl bases. I was one of the few lvl32 who actually had 2100 crowns because the game was flexible enough to allow it and it forced players to build good defenses or get beaten by a lvl32. I've now lost almost 300 crowns since the update and really do not want to rush to get the stronger units/buildings like our lvl 60-71 friends, but we're now forced to do so, and play the same game and tactics everyone else now has to. Just my .02.

syllrag
12-06-13, 05:54 AM
I REALLY HATE how the DONATE buttons pop up now in chat. It makes me not wanna chat in the alliance chat.

They copy it from the game next door, you know who.

cornythorny
12-06-13, 07:40 AM
i have to say the changes to the troops are good, as far as the lightning cannons and fireball catapult damage goes is outrageous. I have lost 70 crowns in 2 battles which I should never have lost. So now you battle for ss/gold and defend for crowns basically. Then spend 2 mil on a wizard's tower for 6 hp... really really.

jackansi
12-06-13, 08:44 AM
Love the new update! No more getting overrun by troops that cost next to nothing! This also should fix the problem with huge piles of unspent stones since people will have to finally use tactics involving more than just spamming cheap troops.

redrockstar
12-06-13, 09:46 AM
I won dude but I admitted that so difficult

Yeah my bad. Won with knights. Only took over 2 hours to train them all. This is so fun!! [/sarcasm]

jackansi
12-06-13, 10:17 AM
You guys do see how rolling through all the battles that give you crowns with cheap and fast training troops IS the root cause of not being able to find enough crown battles in the long term, right?



a. There are probably less than 1500 players that will produce 1 or more crowns, 10% of which you'll probably be able to beat (really, really, good odds from my experience). So thats ~150 possible targets..

b. Lets say your army is archers/thieves (current accepted junk tactic) with a training time of ~:25 avg. Gives you 240 troops per 24 minutes. Lets say you have to use them ALL on each battle and no reinforcements. So 2 attacking forces per hour...

c. Now those ~150 targets are being sought after by the other ~1350 players of similar kind, so thats ~9 attackers per target.

d. Lets say those ~150 targets get 12 hour shields on avg and divide the shields evenly so there are always the same number of people emerging from their shields every hour. ~12.5 players available to be attacked every hour.

So the conclusion: ~9 attackers per hour (c), able to attack ~18 players per hour (b*c) with only ~12.5 players (d) available to be attacked...



To have players available to be attacked you need to:

1. Reduce or remove the free shield (I doubt anyone wants that).
2. Increase the time required to rebuild your attack force by shifting the time required up on low end troops (sucks for new players), or by forcing tactics that rely on costlier troops (not a big deal for long time players since they have the resources)
3. Increase the number of people that produce crowns thereby increasing the attackable pool (by basing crowns given on a minimum of 1, or by creating a means to get more players to crown up on their own).

Its pretty darn simple math that I hope any game developer would/could do...

Also seems that the game just moved in that general direction, huh?

FrozenTurtle
12-06-13, 10:25 AM
I confirmed my suspicion. Demolitionists are now attacking farther walls - mods can replay my battle if they wish. Once again, instead of taking a straight path to the nearest wall, they went slightly diagonal after a farther wall. Two things in common both times this happened, there was a trap in their way and the farther wall had a buidling closer to it. Lost 4 in a row since upgrade, -116 crowns. Before the upgrade, I was on a 20+ game winning streak.

Can you please PM me the name of the player you attacked so we can take a look?



Love the new update! No more getting overrun by troops that cost next to nothing! This also should fix the problem with huge piles of unspent stones since people will have to finally use tactics involving more than just spamming cheap troops.

We hope this will encourage much more strategic placement of units and consideration of which troops to use! :)

cornythorny
12-06-13, 11:17 AM
You guys do see how rolling through all the battles that give you crowns with cheap and fast training troops IS the root cause of not being able to find enough crown battles in the long term, right?



a. There are probably less than 1500 players that will produce 1 or more crowns, 10% of which you'll probably be able to beat (really, really, good odds from my experience). So thats ~150 possible targets..

b. Lets say your army is archers/thieves (current accepted junk tactic) with a training time of ~:25 avg. Gives you 240 troops per 24 minutes. Lets say you have to use them ALL on each battle and no reinforcements. So 2 attacking forces per hour...

c. Now those ~150 targets are being sought after by the other ~1350 players of similar kind, so thats ~9 attackers per target.

d. Lets say those ~150 targets get 12 hour shields on avg and divide the shields evenly so there are always the same number of people emerging from their shields every hour. ~12.5 players available to be attacked every hour.

So the conclusion: ~9 attackers per hour (c), able to attack ~18 players per hour (b*c) with only ~12.5 players (d) available to be attacked...



To have players available to be attacked you need to:

1. Reduce or remove the free shield (I doubt anyone wants that).
2. Increase the time required to rebuild your attack force by shifting the time required up on low end troops (sucks for new players), or by forcing tactics that rely on costlier troops (not a big deal for long time players since they have the resources)
3. Increase the number of people that produce crowns thereby increasing the attackable pool (by basing crowns given on a minimum of 1, or by creating a means to get more players to crown up on their own).

Its pretty darn simple math that I hope any game developer would/could do...

Also seems that the game just moved in that general direction, huh?

actually what is boils down to is now there will be a ton of upper level players dropping down their crowns and destroy the lower level players IE more farming lol

meh76
12-06-13, 11:44 AM
SP how are we supposed to train our troops before being hit again?

That is the main reason that I used archers mostly, they train quickly and I could actually get a few battles in before I was bombarded back to the stoneage. Now, that is totally impossible.

mybaby1977
12-06-13, 12:01 PM
Love the new update! No more getting overrun by troops that cost next to nothing! This also should fix the problem with huge piles of unspent stones since people will have to finally use tactics involving more than just spamming cheap troops.
So you are expecting a software update to compensate for your base's defensive deficiencies. How's that any better than the people who just spam 200+ archers to beat you? Now when all the high levels are dropping down to torment the lower level players and prevent them from getting up, Firemocha will increase offense and drop defense. Furthermore, this game does not allow you to develop a strategy. Every strategy that is too good gets nannied by the developers, and you are supporting that. I'm sorry but this game is ALWAYS in beta and will never be a great RTS game.

donger2k
12-06-13, 12:24 PM
Folks, archers were way overpowered in the older iterations, and comprised 75-100% of an army at level 35+. In addition, upper level troops were utterly useless due to their high build times/costs/ineffectiveness.

At first glance these are good changes. The goal here is to try to have multiple viable ways to attack bases.

To those complaining about upper level players attacking lower levels - that is a MATCHMAKING PROBLEM that is completely irrelevant in this discussion.

meh76
12-06-13, 01:23 PM
I understand the reason for the changes but it just seems no matter what I try, I can't win any battles.
And it looks like I am not alone in this.

I'm done for now. Out of resources :rolleyes:

redrockstar
12-06-13, 01:34 PM
So they just wanted to force players to use other troops, and in doing so took every ounce of fun away from the game. *facepalm*

So FrozenTurtle whats the explanation with assassins? They have always (and still are) been useless. Why don't you fix that instead of adding more troops to the useless pile?

mybaby1977
12-06-13, 01:39 PM
Definitely, archers were over used and very powerful in upgraded form but I don't think punishing the warriors, thieves, assassins, and demolitionists is the best resolution to that problem. You all do realize that all of the units mentioned above will die in masses within a second if 2-3 fire catapults fire on them simultaneously.

redrockstar
12-06-13, 01:47 PM
Definitely, archers were over used and very powerful in upgraded form but I don't think punishing the warriors, thieves, assassins, and demolitionists is the best resolution to that problem. You all do realize that all of the units mentioned above will die in masses within a second if 2-3 fire catapults fire on them simultaneously.
Exactly. They're all borderline useless now because of catapults. Weakening them - sure, but destroying them completely like this? Ridiculous. And oh so typical for this company.

penqueen2
12-06-13, 02:15 PM
I have only been playing for a couple of months. This is my first post. I can’t win any crown battles now. I can barely sometimes win a 0 crown battle. So we have to use some advanced units. A big problem occurs, they cost so much more that you can’t win enough spellstones to rebuild. Also the build times are so long that you get very bored! This is now broken and no fun anymore!

jackansi
12-06-13, 02:19 PM
I was just pointing out the game mechanics as I see it that some people completely missed. My base does just fine in defense. No one with an army of just one type has ever gotten past about 55% damage. Now its more like 30% tops and I'm loving it... Sorry that you are having such a hard time with one troop spamming tactics that require no thought... But I'm having no trouble finding loot and destroying enemies. But then again I've never subscribed to the one troop army junk so...

Anyway...


The solution to the "problem" that I would have implemented:

1. Don't show the number of available crowns or loot anymore, aside from the obvious visual cues, and peg the minimum crowns at 1 (only for a >90% though). (a real attacker isn't going to know you have exactly 327,976 gold in your vault)
2. Put a max of 33-50% of any one kind of troop in an army.
3. Free shield from a loss at a max of 8 hours.
4. Remove the ability of an archer to "steal" loot with an arrow (an arrow is ONE WAY, how is the loot getting back to them?). Unless the entire kingdom is destroyed (100%), then you get it all as a "Total destruction bonus".
5. Give thieves a 1.5x bonus to the amount of loot the building has to offer. So if the building gives up 20% to an attacker, the thieves would be able to take 30%.
6. Put the catapults back to the original damage but increase the speed of the projectile so the thing connects slightly more often at its limit.
7. Remove the splash damage from the lightning (makes little real-world sense, but it is magic anyway so :))
8. Reduce the time to re-train on anything to no more than 10 minutes for each troop.
9. Increase the health of all buildings that can't be "leveled up" as a factor of RH level.
10. The RH contains up to 1M stones/coins at level 10 (100K each level), but can only be taken by assassins. All other troops only have access to 4K.

But at that point I feel we are talking about a completely different game...

liscke
12-06-13, 02:20 PM
You introduce gem rewards to encourage people to play for crowns, then in the next breath, make major changes so that winning crowns for most of us is near on impossible. Lets not beat around the bush...you want people to build high tier troops and gem their armies, because, let's face it, how many people are going to twiddle their thumbs for the hour or more it will take to wait for them to train. So, simplistically, there are now 3 options. 1. Wait over an hour between battles - untenable since you cant log off and do something thats actually fun while you wait without being raided by dragons. 2. Gem your armies so you dont have to wait. Hmm... Who's the winner in this scenario? 3. Go farming and pick on the little guys so they too can experience the fun of being flattened every time they log off knowing they'll never be able to regain crowns.

For the record...the definition of 'tweak' is 'to make minor adjustments'. Look it up sometime.

mybaby1977
12-06-13, 02:46 PM
But at that point I feel we are talking about a completely different game...
I agree with you on this one point. You are talking about a new game called Fireball Catapults & Lightning Towers. Everyone else is talking about Kingdom Clash.

redrockstar
12-06-13, 02:53 PM
Jackansi, what level are you?


You introduce gem rewards to encourage people to play for crowns, then in the next breath, make major changes so that winning crowns for most of us is near on impossible. Lets not beat around the bush...you want people to build high tier troops and gem their armies, because, let's face it, how many people are going to twiddle their thumbs for the hour or more it will take to wait for them to train. So, simplistically, there are now 3 options. 1. Wait over an hour between battles - untenable since you cant log off and do something thats actually fun while you wait without being raided by dragons. 2. Gem your armies so you dont have to wait. Hmm... Who's the winner in this scenario? 3. Go farming and pick on the little guys so they too can experience the fun of being flattened every time they log off knowing they'll never be able to regain crowns.

For the record...the definition of 'tweak' is 'to make minor adjustments'. Look it up sometime.

So much truth here.

kittensabc
12-06-13, 07:13 PM
Seeing as most of my attack strategies still work, and my base is much stronger now, I genuinely like this update.

eeon222
12-06-13, 08:13 PM
yeah i just came to see whats up because i lost nearly every single match i made. and some were rather easy, eor should i say used to be?

defenses are way too powerful for the troops that were weakened down to the point of usefulness, the only troops that i hear are working are the higher level ones, from demolitionist to dragon. and since i dont have any of those or the means to gather the reasources to upgrade, i guess ill just be waiting for a fix or dropping the game ! good luck to the rest of yahs!

gandalf72
12-06-13, 08:36 PM
i can't seem to edit my previous message so i'll add another annoyance. I really hate how the donate buttons pop up now in chat. It makes me not wanna chat in the alliance chat. Plus do we really need to see the alliance name in alliance chat? Way to make the game so much worse.

ditto < that's in all caps in case you didn't notice!!!!

eeon222
12-06-13, 09:29 PM
I have only been playing for a couple of months. This is my first post. I can?t win any crown battles now. I can barely sometimes win a 0 crown battle. So we have to use some advanced units. A big problem occurs, they cost so much more that you can?t win enough spellstones to rebuild. Also the build times are so long that you get very bored! This is now broken and no fun anymore!

i agree the fun is going away very fast, instead of the high levels clobbering us with archers, and us getting them back for it with bears and archers, the game has now changed to the high levels clobbering us with bombers and dragons and us being incapable of a successful counterattack. but seeing as how the majority of the high levels have bought thier game with gems, its totally working out for those who can build knights bombers and dragons. and those of us who cant will just have to be bombed into the stoneage for the next three weeks, since thats how long its going to take before the devs figure it out

its clearly gem sales that are motivating the changes, an actual functional game is not in the interst, because if they were worried about folks not using the higher troops all they had to do was reduce the space that was required. all this nerfing the simple units and boosting the of the complex units unit has done is, create a big rift between the low level non gem buying players and the high level gem buying customers who pay thier wages. i forcast alot of players quiting before the end of the year, so they might want to rethink this patch before then, but hey it prolly wont affect thie devs wallets so no hurries right?

jackansi
12-06-13, 10:13 PM
I agree with you on this one point. You are talking about a new game called Fireball Catapults & Lightning Towers. Everyone else is talking about Kingdom Clash.

lol, I'm not the one complaining about catapults and towers like you are, my plan nerfs them. Did you even read? It just removes the benefit of mindless tactics and rewards creativity in building an army. Obviously this is a concept you are not too familiar with so no point in listening to you anymore :) It's pretty obvious that if your tactics and castle suck, you're going to keep doing poorly till they revert things for the whiners. Squeaky wheels, grease and all that...

ccc5469
12-06-13, 10:19 PM
You guys do see how rolling through all the battles that give you crowns with cheap and fast training troops IS the root cause of not being able to find enough crown battles in the long term, right?



a. There are probably less than 1500 players that will produce 1 or more crowns, 10% of which you'll probably be able to beat (really, really, good odds from my experience). So thats ~150 possible targets..

b. Lets say your army is archers/thieves (current accepted junk tactic) with a training time of ~:25 avg. Gives you 240 troops per 24 minutes. Lets say you have to use them ALL on each battle and no reinforcements. So 2 attacking forces per hour...

c. Now those ~150 targets are being sought after by the other ~1350 players of similar kind, so thats ~9 attackers per target.

d. Lets say those ~150 targets get 12 hour shields on avg and divide the shields evenly so there are always the same number of people emerging from their shields every hour. ~12.5 players available to be attacked every hour.

So the conclusion: ~9 attackers per hour (c), able to attack ~18 players per hour (b*c) with only ~12.5 players (d) available to be attacked...



To have players available to be attacked you need to:

1. Reduce or remove the free shield (I doubt anyone wants that).
2. Increase the time required to rebuild your attack force by shifting the time required up on low end troops (sucks for new players), or by forcing tactics that rely on costlier troops (not a big deal for long time players since they have the resources)
3. Increase the number of people that produce crowns thereby increasing the attackable pool (by basing crowns given on a minimum of 1, or by creating a means to get more players to crown up on their own).

Its pretty darn simple math that I hope any game developer would/could do...

Also seems that the game just moved in that general direction, huh?


Well said! I personally like the update...don't really understand why everyone is complaining. If your old attack strategy isn't working, you just have to figure out a new one.

jackansi
12-06-13, 10:38 PM
We hope this will encourage much more strategic placement of units and consideration of which troops to use! :)

Also noticed you didn't mention the bears take way less time too.

redrockstar
12-06-13, 10:42 PM
Why would you complain about other people complaining? Not everyone is at the same level nor do they find the upgrade as "exciting" as you. Oh joy. Now you get to train 4 different types of troops, so much more fun!!11!1!1!!

liscke
12-06-13, 11:23 PM
lol, I'm not the one complaining about catapults and towers like you are, my plan nerfs them. Did you even read? It just removes the benefit of mindless tactics and rewards creativity in building an army. Obviously this is a concept you are not too familiar with so no point in listening to you anymore :) It's pretty obvious that if your tactics and castle suck, you're going to keep doing poorly till they revert things for the whiners. Squeaky wheels, grease and all that...
Not sure being condescending is helpful, and maybe you're being deliberately obtuse. The issue is simple. To win battles, and therefore resources generally, you need upgraded, high tier troops. With all your wisdom, maybe you could share how people who dont yet have them are supposed to get the resources to unlock and upgrade them. It's a simple catch 22. They need those troops to get those troops. Its not hard to change your tactics when you have the troops to necessary to do so. Hopefully you can get that concept... I understand that those who have already upgraded to the level required would be enjoying the update, but there's no doubt that the gap will now be a chasm, and in time that wont be good for anyone.

ccc5469
12-07-13, 12:15 AM
[QUOTE=redrockstar;800305]Why would you complain about other people complaining? Not everyone is at the same level nor do they find the upgrade as "exciting" as you. Oh joy. Now you get to train 4 different types of troops, so much more fun!!11!1!1!![/

I wasn't complaining..I lost over 150 crowns too when it first updated. I was just saying that it is possible to still win even though the archers and bears aren't very helpful anymore. And no you don't have to be at a high level and have maxed out troops...I sure do not!

But thank you for your response. Hope that made you feel better to get all that out.

CLOVERKAITO
12-07-13, 12:15 AM
What the bloody he-

I just lost 36 crowns because the Demolitionists were being EXTREMELY DUMB. They moved diagonally and attacked walls that were SUPER FAR AWAY!! WHY?!?!?!?! It took me like 4 battles to win those crowns, and now I lost 36 crowns as a result :mad: I was already super upset that I lost over 350 gems thanks to ONE stupid gem trap (which FireMocha gave a useless response saying they can't do anything about it, won't give gems back to me blah blah blah.)

See screencap below. Blue circle is where I tapped to place the demolitionists. Red circle is where they (obviously) ended up attacking.

11627

Also gonna make my iTunes review to 1 star to show my appreciation to the staffs for making the game worse, and for not implementing anything to protect the players from gem traps (how about adding an "are you sure you want to speed this up?" pop up screen to save people from these sneaky gem traps). Thank you.

CLOVERKAITO
12-07-13, 12:20 AM
On top of those walls being far away, *every building* behind that wall was already previously destroyed, and there was *already* a gap in that wall in that corner. Why would the demonlistionists think I need another hole in the same wall with no more loot is beyond me.

syllrag
12-07-13, 12:29 AM
Not sure being condescending is helpful, and maybe you're being deliberately obtuse. The issue is simple. To win battles, and therefore resources generally, you need upgraded, high tier troops. With all your wisdom, maybe you could share how people who dont yet have them are supposed to get the resources to unlock and upgrade them. It's a simple catch 22. They need those troops to get those troops. Its not hard to change your tactics when you have the troops to necessary to do so. Hopefully you can get that concept... I understand that those who have already upgraded to the level required would be enjoying the update, but there's no doubt that the gap will now be a chasm, and in time that wont be good for anyone.

I do get that people who suffer the most with this update is medium to high crown people who haven't unlocked their 4th post or had their high level troops upgraded. The pain is worsen by not getting the gems reward for crown advancement (50 gems for 250 crowns, 100 for 500, 250 for 1000, etc). My suggestion is maybe lower your crown a bit to get those troops upgraded before going back up. I see a lot of opponents with 100k, 200k and 300k resources each with easy defenses around 500 crowns. You can find those bases with above 30% chances when you click the next button.

Second suggestion if you still want to keep your crowns, be more picky on your opponents, click the next button more often to get a more suitable opponent for you to defeat and perhaps tweak your attacking strategy a bit. I do still manage to keep winning by using 30 warriors (lv4), 144 archers (lv5), 20 thieves (lv4) and 16 demos (lv4). I am currently over 2000 crowns but I do get my crowns mostly from defense battles, especially since the tower power up update. Also note that bear's cooking time was shorten from 2min 5sec to only 1min/bear.

syllrag
12-07-13, 12:59 AM
I was already super upset that I lost over 350 gems thanks to ONE stupid gem trap (which FireMocha gave a useless response saying they can't do anything about it, won't give gems back to me blah blah blah

Also gonna make my iTunes review to 1 star to show my appreciation to the staffs for making the game worse, and for not implementing anything to protect the players from gem traps (how about adding an "are you sure you want to speed this up?" pop up screen to save people from these sneaky gem traps). Thank you.

I also got those gems trap more than once. That's how they make money. People mentioned that storm8 implements the gems trap on every of their games. They only care about the money. Even their employees mentioned in glassdoor that their management only care about profit. That alone kills innovation and creativity, which leads to copying every other successful game mechanics, with a lousy customer support.

"Cons ? At the end of the day, Storm8 is focused on profit. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - everyone needs to get paid (and those free catered meals won't pay for themselves). But it can sometimes stifle creativity, and lead to decisions based on the bottom line, not based on making best-in-class products." -glassdoor by storm8's employee

"Storm 8 has shady business practices. Not only do most of their games contain "gem traps" (requiring repetitive taps that sometimes result in spending real money by accident) but their customer service and customer management is atrocious. They engage in leery tactics like doubling the prices in their game overnight, and when customers complain about it, they delete the complaints and even ban people from the game altogether. Not sure what they seek to accomplish by blocking free speech, but all it's doing is driving away the adult, paying demographic leaving them with children & preteens who either have no money or spend their parents money unwittingly, opening up Storm 8 to more complaints from angry parents." -yelp by an angry customer

syllrag
12-07-13, 01:06 AM
"Cons ? At the end of the day, Storm8 is focused on profit. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - everyone needs to get paid (and those free catered meals won't pay for themselves). But it can sometimes stifle creativity, and lead to decisions based on the bottom line, not based on making best-in-class products." -glassdoor by storm8's employee

And that alone contradicts with what their CEO and co-founder Perry Tam said:

"The way that I think we?re different, in terms of making those games, is when we decide to go into a genre, when we decide to make a new game, we always keep in mind that we want to make the best game in that category. I think a lot of companies out there that try to clone other people?s games, they don?t have that in mind. Their job is just to clone. For us, our job is to make it the best in that category. When we made Bubble Mania, we put a lot of attention into the details. I have to give a lot of praise to the team for making it so polished. It?s the best bubble-shooting game on mobile, period. That contributed a lot to its success, on top of every other important asset that we have. Our platform technology allows us to create games of a pretty high quality at a much lower cost." -GamesBeat interview with Tam, CEO and co-founder of storm8

sand
12-07-13, 01:13 AM
Bravo, FireMocha! Like the gems-for-crowns incentive, this update is clearly aimed at pushing players into upper crown ranges and discouraging farming (which any honest player will admit has become excessive in this game). It doesn't spell the end of farming, but it forces raiders to at least work at it, utilizing larger or more advanced attack groups instead of simply dropping a small group of basic quickies on bases down in the lower crown ranges. In the end, it's just a balance shift that players can smartly adjust to.

BALANCE:

The upgrade of catapults and lightning towers were often neglected because their cost and build time were very high, relative to other weapons; players now have more incentive to do these upgrades.
The cheap, quick mini-armies used by high-level players to farm lower bases had become a horrible joke; some of those bases will now have a defensive prayer, and the farmers will have to put out a little more effort. A little. Just a little, farmer friends.
The more advanced troops were under-utilized due to their long training times; now attackers can have more fun with mages, wizards, knights and dragons. Even defenses can benefit from this because you are now more likely to get these troops as donations if your portal can fit them.
Ultimately, these updates also increase motivation to upgrade portals, armories and barracks so that players can accommodate and train the advanced troops.

I'm still winning the battles I WANT to win. I didn't notice any degradation in my troops' performance, whether in pathing or survival against the catapult-lightning duo. If it weren't for players complaining in chat, I wouldn't even have been aware of that power shift. Then again, I don't usually just send a bunch of thieves or archers after resources and hope that they'll manage to avoid or outrun the splash damage weapons. Unless I'm deliberately using a loot-n-lose tactic, those weapons ARE my primary targets! I am elated that the advanced troops can now be more quickly available for that purpose. Who wants to go through the game attacking with only warriors, archers and thieves anyway?

Using an approach that takes out weapons before going after resources will generally result in victory, pushing crowns up but putting a player in more competitive ranges. I understand that this will not be desirable for farmers who want to hunt below 400 crowns, or raiders like myself who try to cruise under 1000 crowns. But crown-chasers should be elated by this update that encourages the style of play that best suits their approach. If, however, you were chasing crowns by using resource-raider attacks and are now watching in horror as your little guys get plastered, it's time to reexamine why different tactics serve different purposes.

sand
12-07-13, 01:21 AM
Just an advance warning to any of the usual antagonists who may respond to my above posting with insults or personal attacks, I don't plan to counter or parry such nastiness, which ultimately only degrades and derails our threads.

ccc5469
12-07-13, 01:46 AM
Just an advance warning to any of the usual antagonists who may respond to my above posting with insults or personal attacks, I don't plan to counter or parry such nastiness, which ultimately only degrades and derails our threads.

Lol I don't really see how anyone could possibly respond to that..you're pretty much right on the money!

mybaby1977
12-07-13, 08:24 AM
lol, I'm not the one complaining about catapults and towers like you are, my plan nerfs them. Did you even read? It just removes the benefit of mindless tactics and rewards creativity in building an army. Obviously this is a concept you are not too familiar with so no point in listening to you anymore :) It's pretty obvious that if your tactics and castle suck, you're going to keep doing poorly till they revert things for the whiners. Squeaky wheels, grease and all that...You never did answer the earlier question of what level you are. It's clear, however, that you are assuming the only people winning before this update were using 75%+ archers in their tactics. I'm sure if I were at your high level before the update, I would be just fine just like alot of the lvl50+ guys on my alliance and I would be so happy that now my defense is rock solid thanks to nothing more than the update...while my offense remained unimpeded. But I am not a high level, I found ways to win, I had over 2100 crowns before the change not using an army of 75% archers, not even 60%. Now all the unit types I have access to barely break through quad-layers of walls. Don't assume my method suks and is comprised of nothing but archers - that does not work for a low level person taking on highly upgraded bases. I challenge you to start over and let's see how far you can get in a game that now only caters to higher level players with upgraded units. Even before the update no one could hit 2100 crowns with an army of primarily archers.
http://i41.tinypic.com/34pnhj7.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/25zlesi.jpg

syllrag
12-07-13, 09:00 AM
I was what..!! 1.8M max resources!? Oh you are lv32... Such a waste winning 1M ss with that low resource cap, you should give some to me ;) Tho, great win!! and great crown level!! It's amazing on how you manage to keep your crown level above 2000 with a level 32. Cheers!!

syllrag
12-07-13, 09:12 AM
Don't wanna lose. Let me share a picture too :)

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ef52ea.jpg

syllrag
12-07-13, 09:39 AM
Another picture of my friend, a lv51 breaking into first place. The rest of the top 10 were all lv71 at that time. She won second place that week. So sad that she doesn't play anymore...

http://i40.tinypic.com/33c25jo.jpg

jackansi
12-07-13, 12:02 PM
Still majority archers... No wonder you have difficulty with the update...

mybaby1977
12-07-13, 12:42 PM
56% is a small majority and that was one fight. Some battles I use alot less and some I use more. Now, no lvl32 techniques work because the game is geared towards high level, highly upgraded offenses.

MeisterLampee
12-07-13, 01:02 PM
I am fine with the updates. But I would like to mention pathing!

I found the pathing 3 month ago the best. Every change made since then was worth than the other. The worst pathing is now. My troops seem to completely ignore walls. So, please give us back the initial pathing, witch was not perfect, but very good compared what we have now. :-)

redrockstar
12-07-13, 07:37 PM
[QUOTE=ccc5469;800357][QUOTE=redrockstar;800305]Why would you complain about other people complaining? Not everyone is at the same level nor do they find the upgrade as "exciting" as you. Oh joy. Now you get to train 4 different types of troops, so much more fun!!11!1!1!![/

I wasn't complaining..I lost over 150 crowns too when it first updated. I was just saying that it is possible to still win even though the archers and bears aren't very helpful anymore. And no you don't have to be at a high level and have maxed out troops...I sure do not!

But thank you for your response. Hope that made you feel better to get all that out.[/QUOTE
I wasn't even talking to you. I was talking to jackansi

redrockstar
12-07-13, 07:38 PM
Jack still hasn't answered what level he is hmmm.

ccc5469
12-08-13, 06:38 AM
[QUOTE=ccc5469;800357][QUOTE=redrockstar;800305]Why would you complain about other people complaining? Not everyone is at the same level nor do they find the upgrade as "exciting" as you. Oh joy. Now you get to train 4 different types of troops, so much more fun!!11!1!1!![/

I wasn't complaining..I lost over 150 crowns too when it first updated. I was just saying that it is possible to still win even though the archers and bears aren't very helpful anymore. And no you don't have to be at a high level and have maxed out troops...I sure do not!

But thank you for your response. Hope that made you feel better to get all that out.[/QUOTE
I wasn't even talking to you. I was talking to jackansi

Oh lol sorry...I changed my mind about this update..it had completely stalled gameplay. Dragons are the only way to win and impossible to defend against. Everyone is in a bad mood and its no fun anymore. Hope they change things a little or I'm probably gonna end up deleting like a lot of people in my alliance already have. ��

jackansi
12-08-13, 06:49 AM
Because it doesn't matter what level anyone is. Seems to just be a fairly poor measure of 'kingdom advancement' that was abandoned.

I have just as much success with my minis since the update as I do with my main. I have yet to find a rhyme or reason to the level of opponent I get matched to. All seems to be based on crowns and little else.

....

The way I see it, this game has elements and "lessons learned" of the failed/stalled storm8 "live" series in it. Where matching on level would take you up against people that ever increasingly got harder to beat and you didn't find that out till you "over-ran" your resources/added people. Then since you couldn't reduce level, you'd become a farm for six or seven people and never get any rest until they leveled up. Basing it off of something else (crowns) gives you a way to backtrack a step or two. In KC If you're out matched, you can pull back at least, or you will naturally be kicked down to a point you'll win/lose about an even number of matches. "Farmers" just take it to the extreme.

Other things like no "chat walls" and adding alliances seems to be directly lifted from the lessons learned as well. People naturally formed alliances in those games. Or abused other players on their chat walls routinely causing headaches for storm 8.

syllrag
12-08-13, 10:14 AM
The way I see it, this game has elements and "lessons learned" of the failed/stalled storm8 "live" series in it. Where matching on level would take you up against people that ever increasingly got harder to beat and you didn't find that out till you "over-ran" your resources/added people. Then since you couldn't reduce level, you'd become a farm for six or seven people and never get any rest until they leveled up. Basing it off of something else (crowns) gives you a way to backtrack a step or two. In KC If you're out matched, you can pull back at least, or you will naturally be kicked down to a point you'll win/lose about an even number of matches. "Farmers" just take it to the extreme.

That's a valid point.



Other things like no "chat walls" and adding alliances seems to be directly lifted from the lessons learned as well. People naturally formed alliances in those games. Or abused other players on their chat walls routinely causing headaches for storm 8.

I still prefer having walls. They can make the reporting system works and just mute the person for several days for flaming/trolling or bypassing the censor.

redrockstar
12-08-13, 11:49 AM
Still no answer on the level, lol. So amusing how you can't answer a simple question yet you have time to write essays. People are so weird.

Anyway, this update still sucks, but it's no surprise as you guys have a knack for ruining your games.

jackansi
12-08-13, 07:40 PM
Level doesn't mean anything... Why don't you get that?

jackansi
12-08-13, 08:04 PM
I still prefer having walls. They can make the reporting system works and just mute the person for several days for flaming/trolling or bypassing the censor.

I'd love to see something other than the current two chat thing they got going on. Storm 8 should've implemented a global chat/pm system with different rooms users could create and just use the chosen stormid for names. That way you could have a good time with all your buddies over all the games, even if they weren't in the same game you happened to be in at the minute. Yes it's like the forums, but it would be a little more private than here.

I'd want severe punishments for abuse though, like your account gets reset to the beginning (retaining/returning any purchased gems). Anything less and it's just a joke that "so and so got muted for X, isn't that a hoot?" Or their buddies join in on the harassment and it becomes part of their game to see how fast/many can get muted. It would only take getting busted down to nothing once for someone to learn to hold their tongue. If they left the game, good riddance. But I'm very black and white with that kind of stuff.

mybaby1977
12-09-13, 09:01 AM
Reports from many players in chat are that huge groups of airships are now decimating bases. I can predict the next update already...flamethrowers deal 2200 damage and have faster rate of fire. As I stated before, this game will never leave its BETA phase. Glorified tower defense, anyone?

Sumercarefree
12-10-13, 07:36 PM
The most I won was a milion gold an a millio stones all at the same time.
These days money is getting a bit less.
I was surprized I ran out of stones due to high cost of Bears !
I hope TL does not keep shifting the goal posts !

deltaframe
12-11-13, 08:09 AM
i'd say good balance, but I'm not sure why buff to dragons. They're already pretty good, now they can pretty much 2 hit all maxed defenses. Glad the fireball is single target, not splash.. we can donate max archers to drop dragons. :p

a lot of balance patches lately... just to cripple framers bit by bit. :cool:

might as well release the hero alter since i'm seeing his pics in the app review. just to make things more interesting.

mybaby1977
12-11-13, 05:29 PM
i'd say good balance, but I'm not sure why buff to dragons. They're already pretty good, now they can pretty much 2 hit all maxed defenses. Glad the fireball is single target, not splash..
Fireballs and lightning are still splash and area damage. I just tested this with 0 crown base.

syllrag
12-11-13, 06:09 PM
i'd say good balance, but I'm not sure why buff to dragons. They're already pretty good, now they can pretty much 2 hit all maxed defenses. Glad the fireball is single target, not splash..


Fireballs and lightning are still splash and area damage. I just tested this with 0 crown base.

He might meant the dragon's fire breath, which is single target.

jahil
12-12-13, 05:37 PM
a lot of balance patches lately... just to cripple framers bit by bit. :cool:



Well, this quite discouraging to low level farmers... High lvl farmers are not affected by it though... They even welcome new farmers now.... They say, those are fresh meat for the grinders.... I guess so too...