PDA

View Full Version : How the game *REALLY* works



Unregistered
05-22-10, 05:14 PM
I threw this together for those interested. You can see the best EXP/Hour and best Profit/Hour. I only listed crops/animals open to me at level 15.

Time is in hours. For those crops that take minutes. They are in fractions of an hour.
Profit/Hour for crops is: (Profit-Cost)/Time. Since the fee for plowing land is the same for all crops, I did not include.
Profit/Hour for animals/trees is: (Profit/Time) basically assuming you've already recovered the initial purchase cost

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjTc455PxiH-dGJNSm9URUhYWdFMEYtYzlyS25GT1E&hl=en

Strategy:
For the most profit per day, plant Blackcurrant during the day and plant Broccoli before going to bed. This also works very well for experience as well. You can also plant either strawberries or raspberries when you have time to kill to make quick money.
For most experience per day, plant Blackcurrant during the day and either Cabbage or Broccoli before going to bed.
General: even if you only check once per day, stay away from animals and instead use crops with long grow times.

Storm8 ID: Nfavor

DeNoBoNeS
05-23-10, 02:46 AM
Very Well Done On The Work....
Note On morning and bed was good :)

RealTelstar
05-23-10, 03:07 AM
Hi,
I was waiting for this :)
Can you put in a spreadsheet (like google, excel, whatever)?

Oh, and please include the plowing fee for crops.

Cheers

lukefoxy
05-23-10, 06:51 AM
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjTc455PxiH-dGJNSm9URUhYWXdFMEYtYzlyS25GT1E&hl=en

thats what i have made up so far, it dosent have xp as i really dont care about it and i couldn't be bothered

thought i should clarify, profit/time is the profit you make per plot of land in the time it takes for the crops to mature. profit/day is what you can expect to make in a best case situation over a 24 hour period

Nfavor
05-23-10, 08:18 AM
Here is my spreadsheet. Much easier to read.


http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aqwq5iv3aBIRdHRpRUtHd1hqR3R4TTFuc2tkZ0Ffb Gc&hl=en

Unregistered
05-23-10, 09:03 AM
I made a similar sheet. By far the best money plant is raspberry then strawberries. But no way in he'll I'm sitting there and planting every min lol

DK

Shaw
05-23-10, 09:13 AM
I made a similar sheet. By far the best money plant is raspberry then strawberries. But no way in he'll I'm sitting there and planting every min lol


Actually, based on how long it takes to plant an entire field, Raspberries and Strawberries net the same cash + xp.

RealTelstar
05-23-10, 09:29 AM
I'm doing another sheet. Can somebody tell me the growing time of:

Potato
Spinach
Broccoli
Red Quinoa
Asparagus
Soy Bean
Cow
Cherry Tree

Thanks.

Nfavor
05-23-10, 09:58 AM
Most of those values are in my first post. Why bother to duplicate what's already been done?


I'm doing another sheet. Can somebody tell me the growing time of:

Potato
Spinach
Broccoli
Red Quinoa
Asparagus
Soy Bean
Cow
Cherry Tree

Thanks.

Shaw
05-23-10, 10:06 AM
Most of those values are in my first post. Why bother to duplicate what's already been done?

I'm sorry to be confrontational... but most of the math in this thread is incorrect.

The problem is that, from what I can see, most people have failed to account for experience gains through plowing. Also, nobody has identified the time variable involved in actually plowing and seeding a field.

I've uploaded my own spreadsheet, and included it in my Speed Farming Guide 2.0.

Again, sorry to call you out.

RealTelstar
05-23-10, 10:12 AM
I'm sorry to be confrontational... but most of the math in this thread is incorrect.

Exactly. I'm redoing almost all.


The problem is that, from what I can see, most people have failed to account for experience gains through plowing.

How much xp you get with each plowing? My farm is all planted for hours lol.


Also, nobody has identified the time variable involved in actually plowing and seeding a field.

Yep. I think it can safely be counted in 1s each, or maybe 3s for both operations, considering the "boredom factor" ;)


I've uploaded my own spreadsheet, and included it in my Speed Farming Guide 2.0.


Will check it.

Shaw
05-23-10, 10:37 AM
How much xp you get with each plowing? My farm is all planted for hours lol.


Plowing can give you huge XP.

You get 1XP for each plowing, so if you plant fast crops like Strawberries, you are constantly re-plowing and gaining planting XP.

Also, I guesstimated that plowing/planting time was 0.5 seconds.

EDIT** Another problem is that people have forgotten to include the cost of plowing, which is 10 coins every time. That severely reduces the profits from something like Raspberries.

Nfavor
05-23-10, 11:57 AM
You're not really calling me out on anything. As I originally noted, the plowing exp/cost is the same for all crops, so I chose not to include it. It wasn't an oversight or mistake. It was a deliberate decision. Why bother to include it if it's the same for *EVERYTHING*?

FAIL for you. Please try again.


I'm sorry to be confrontational... but most of the math in this thread is incorrect.

The problem is that, from what I can see, most people have failed to account for experience gains through plowing. Also, nobody has identified the time variable involved in actually plowing and seeding a field.

I've uploaded my own spreadsheet, and included it in my Speed Farming Guide 2.0.

Again, sorry to call you out.

Farmer Grud
05-23-10, 11:57 AM
The following spreadsheet takes into account the 1 point of experience you get for plowing the ground as well as the $10 it cost you. I have put the crops in order of how long it takes them to ripen in my spreadsheet as I find that to be a better order then their store order.

http://www.mynetimages.com/a81bb634b2.jpg

***Please note however, this spreadsheet does NOT take into account the time it takes to plow, plant and pick your crops. It does its calculations as if you were able to plant INSTANTLY again as soon as your crops were ripened. For instance: it assumes you can plant 60 raspberries in an hour because they ripen in 1 minute, however that would truthfully be an impossibility due to the time lost from plowing, planting and picking.

Also PLEASE show off your farm in my thread at...
http://forums.teamlava.com/showthread.php?37-Show-Us-Your-Farm!!!

Farmer Ted
05-23-10, 02:54 PM
Thanks Grud

Farmer Ted
05-23-10, 02:56 PM
I'm sorry to be confrontational... but most of the math in this thread is incorrect.

I have to agree.


I've uploaded my own spreadsheet, and included it in my Speed Farming Guide 2.0.

Where is this that I can download it?

Thanks.

Shaw
05-23-10, 03:55 PM
You're not really calling me out on anything. As I originally noted, the plowing exp/cost is the same for all crops, so I chose not to include it. It wasn't an oversight or mistake. It was a deliberate decision. Why bother to include it if it's the same for *EVERYTHING*?

FAIL for you. Please try again.

What about plowing exp/time?

Also, I only apologized in advance in order to avoid some sort of flame response. Wasted effort, it seems.

Nfavor
05-23-10, 05:33 PM
As I've said many times, plowing is a fixed cost for all crops, so why include it? It's not like the profitability of one crop is 0.000001 more than the other and factoring in plowing cost is going to sway you greatly one way or another.

Again, I don't see including the time element other than adjusting what you plant near or prior to your bed time. It takes the same amount of time to plow x amount of tiles, so can you explain why including it is so vital?

I haven't seen any clear explanation as to why my numbers are flawed other than you wanting to include extra factors that are not overly critical to what crops you choose for profit.

Shaw
05-23-10, 05:50 PM
Can you provide any examples? I'm looking for collaboration rather than a few trying to hijack the tread for the much less popular Speed Farming Guide.

It's not a popularity contest... it is a question of accuracy.

The math is in the other thread, but if you'd like for me to repeat it here, then read on.

If we agree upon the variables:

E = Expense
R = Revenue
X = Experience
T = Time

Then, the correct equation for Profit is:

P = R - E - 10

Also, the correct equation for Experience/Time must also include (1 / T) in order to count gains from plowing.

Moreover, the equation for time should also include some concept of how long it takes to plow and plant a field (expressed as 1sec x field size). Therefore, the correct equation for Time (in the case of Raspberries) is:

(1 + ((1 * 169) / 60)) / 60

The plain and simple values for Raspberries are:

E = 0
R = 20
X = 0
T = 0.06 (round)
P = 10
P/T = 157 (round)
X/T = 16 (round)

Now, if you have any more questions, you should be able to follow the correct math yourself.

*EDITED... The simple argument - You said Raspberries give 0 experience every hour, which indicates that you clearly forgot some variable interactions.

Nfavor
05-23-10, 06:18 PM
Accuracy can be generated out to any number of digits. The question is if that "accuracy" has any real world gain. I have yet to see where using your model would generate results such that they average player would create a different play strategy. Like I said before, I can include any number of extra variables but the scope of their impact on the outcome is trivial, so why bother? If it had a major impact, I would of included them, but I didn't as stated in my assumptions.

As clearly indicated in the game, raspberries do grant 0 experience. It is the external act of plowing that grants experience. You chose to include the external factor, I chose to exclude it. Again, the real question is if the +1 experience for plowing would greatly sway the average player to choose one crop over another. It doesn't! That's why I choose not to include it.

You are welcome to include as many variables in your formula's but they have zero practical impact on player decisions so why bother? I have yet to see a compelling example for practical gains by using your more complicated model.


It's not a popularity contest... it is a question of accuracy.

The math is in the other thread, but if you'd like for me to repeat it here, then read on.

If we agree upon the variables:

E = Expense
R = Revenue
X = Experience
T = Time

Then, the correct equation for Profit is:

P = R - E - 10

Also, the correct equation for Experience/Time must also include (1 / T) in order to count gains from plowing.

Moreover, the equation for time should also include some concept of how long it takes to plow and plant a field (expressed as 1sec x field size). Therefore, the correct equation for Time (in the case of Raspberries) is:

(1 + ((1 * 169) / 60)) / 60

The plain and simple values for Raspberries are:

E = 0
R = 20
X = 0
T = 0.06 (round)
P = 10
P/T = 157 (round)
X/T = 16 (round)

Now, if you have any more questions, you should be able to follow the correct math yourself.

*EDITED... The simple argument - You said Raspberries give 0 experience every hour, which indicates that you clearly forgot some variable interactions.

latimus
05-23-10, 06:46 PM
first of all great work done. however did you consider the following

for crops you need consider plowing cost too

Nfavor
05-23-10, 06:57 PM
Thank you. Since plowing is a fixed exp/cost for any type of crop, I chose not to include it. None of the profit or exp numbers are close enough that factoring these would in would make a huge difference.


first of all great work done. however did you consider the following

for crops you need consider plowing cost too

Farmer Grud
05-23-10, 07:34 PM
first of all great work done. however did you consider the following

for crops you need consider plowing cost too

I DID include plowing cost in my spreadsheet about 6 post back. Here I'll repost my previous post...

The following spreadsheet takes into account the 1 point of experience you get for plowing the ground as well as the $10 it cost you. I have put the crops in order of how long it takes them to ripen in my spreadsheet as I find that to be a better order then their store order.

http://www.mynetimages.com/a81bb634b2.jpg

***Please note however, this spreadsheet does NOT take into account the time it takes to plow, plant and pick your crops. It does its calculations as if you were able to plant INSTANTLY again as soon as your crops were ripened. For instance: it assumes you can plant 60 raspberries in an hour because they ripen in 1 minute, however that would truthfully be an impossibility due to the time lost from plowing, planting and picking.

Also PLEASE show off your farm in my thread at...
http://forums.teamlava.com/showthread.php?37-Show-Us-Your-Farm!!!

Nfavor
05-23-10, 07:44 PM
Grud, as many of my critics will state, "your calculations are invalid since you have not taken plowing time into consideration."

I quote only for irony and not validity.

latimus
05-23-10, 07:48 PM
I noticed later - thanks to ascending sort of this forum

Happy Farming
Latimus


I DID include plowing cost in my spreadsheet about 6 post back. Here I'll repost my previous post...

The following spreadsheet takes into account the 1 point of experience you get for plowing the ground as well as the $10 it cost you. I have put the crops in order of how long it takes them to ripen in my spreadsheet as I find that to be a better order then their store order.

http://www.mynetimages.com/a81bb634b2.jpg

***Please note however, this spreadsheet does NOT take into account the time it takes to plow, plant and pick your crops. It does its calculations as if you were able to plant INSTANTLY again as soon as your crops were ripened. For instance: it assumes you can plant 60 raspberries in an hour because they ripen in 1 minute, however that would truthfully be an impossibility due to the time lost from plowing, planting and picking.

Also PLEASE show off your farm in my thread at...
http://forums.teamlava.com/showthread.php?37-Show-Us-Your-Farm!!!

Shaw
05-23-10, 11:03 PM
Grud, as many of my critics will state, "your calculations are invalid since you have not taken plowing time into consideration."

I quote only for irony and not validity.

I'm just gonna let this one insult itself.

Nfavor
05-24-10, 06:14 AM
No comment on my reply to your "accuracy" post?


I'm just gonna let this one insult itself.

Gunregistered
05-24-10, 08:30 AM
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone tried to make a much more open, free and creative game than the S8 stable unfun. MUST. MAKE. THE. MOST. MONEY. PER. HOUR!

Unregistered
05-24-10, 09:14 AM
I dont think the time factor is that really big of a deal when you are planting. Maybe for the strawberries and raspberries, but other plants not so much. The reason is because i can usually plow and plant the entire field in under 2 min or so. And when talking about plants that graw for 4 to 8 hrs, it really doesent have that much of an impact.

If you really want to compare a 4hr plant with 8 hr plant, then yes obviously you will loose couple mins planting the 4hr plant. but again it doesent have that much of a impact. No one is gonna sit there and plant and pick right on the dot.

you are bound to loose time from doing other stuff too. I did make my own sheet, but i did a little bit differently. But by far the best plant is cabbage for me. People are saying Black cur. But i dont see it.

DK

HOLY **** - I must correct myself I had the wrong cost for the Black cur. Yes it is the best crop and not cabbage.

Farmer Law
05-25-10, 02:22 AM
Nfavor,
The crucial mistake you are making is that, although plowing is a set cost, it is NOT a set percent cost. If plowing cost the same percent for all crops, then you would be correct that it can safely be excluded. However, it is exactly because it is a set cost that it MUST be included for your numbers to be accurate. I understand if you are just too lazy to correct your spreadsheet because it is "good enough"...that's fine. But your dogged arguments that it does not need to be included because it doesn't matter seems to indicate that you just can't admit that you were wrong or that you don't understand the basic concept of percent vs. amount.