Use of Expendables - Part 1

[forwardmarch]

I put this thread up to share my experience with Expendables - UAVs.

To move up a level, I wanted to test the full impact of UAVs and see how well they last in multiple battles. I loaded up max at my lvl (1470) and set out to hit the SL. Over 2 hours I restored couple of times, and had to replenish stocks as needed (I didn’t replenish to full strength but gave short term boosts)

These are the results ONLY for hitting the sanction list.
Total hits = 88 (all BLIND hits – i.e. I didn’t look at the troop structure)
Wins = 85
Losses = 3

Average loss per hit = 1% (around 13 UAVs)
Worst case loss on HL = 77 & 68 UAVs (I mis-clicked TWICE a lvl 65 with full defense) ouch
Best case win on HL = 19 MM
Restores = 5 times (average of 900K)

Based on my ‘test’, these are my observations for battling the sanction list:

* UAVs drop like flies (which you already knew)
1% loss in simple numeric terms is not much but as noted above 13 UAVs = 9.1MM.
Which means each hit much yield at-least 12 MM per hit to be profitable.

*When hitting BLIND, the UAVs are effective max to 10 lvls above. Anything above, you may win but the losses are horrendous. So, if you are lvl 50, you can hit up to lvl 60 quite profitably.

*Income base, you must have a strong income base to pull this off.
To sustain this level of combat, you must have income to both replenish UAVs and have the defense to fend off those who sanction you for hitting them on HL. Currently, my gross is 267MM; during the test I had both a full fleet of carriers & UAVs which brought my upkeep to around 20%.

*Top up UAVs as much as possible.
Taking the train of thought from the above point and looking at the results of the 88 battles, I’ve lost more when I didn’t replenish the UAV stock. To do so however, you need a sold income base.

*Surfing the sanction, and attacking those who hit you and lost is profitable– my greatest wins came while I was put up for killing on HL. Whoever, lost against me, I hit back hard.

If you are going to lose money, might as well take it from someone else and give it up. As Agent Yellow had said somewhere on these forums, there is always a couple of billion exchanging hands each day on WW. I must caution though that this is not always 100% the case. So be prepared for some major losses.

*Defense base
Taking the point above, and considering the Current nature of the SL, it is possible at times to surf and hit people on SL. I would recommend at bare minimum you have 85% defense against the top line attack bird in your lvl range. Offcourse, if you have a defense lvl far greater than your lvl, your odds are better.


As this is a blind approach and not targeted killing, the odds of losing lots of UAVs are high. However, the key point is that if the UAVs did give me wins for BLIND hits on SL, a careful targeted approach such as hitting weak players at higher levels will be immensely profitable.

Hope this helps, I am interested in hearing other players who have used different tactics or have better strategies.

Cheers
FM

[should i register]

Sorry don't like to register :)

But interesting post, so what you are saying is that you can hit anyone on sanction list within 10 lvls of your lvl and still win.

I wonder if it's different at upper lvls say mid 80s (my lvl).

In the spirit of scientific research, i will try to do something similar to see if my results match up to yours.

[som1976]

Here is what I say:

1. Expendables would drop like flies.
2. Purchase them when you want to go all out attack.
3. Use them against targets with very less anti aircraft guns and turrets.
4. Donot hoard them as then donot provide defense..

[collateralxd]

3. Use them against targets with very less anti aircraft guns and turrets.


lulz.

So if you saw some guy with 1 anti aircraft turret, and 32000 bunkers, you'd attack him with your 100 (lets just say you have 100) UAVs?

It doesn't matter what "type" of defence it is, just the pure defence points.

[som1976]

What i meant to say on point 3 was less defense building not a particular one.
But did you find anyone with the figures you said?

There would be no one as the bunkers would be too costly by this time and will offer less def points...

Well let us not catch each other's words. It is just obvious what we are saying right?

[forwardmarch]

Som & Collateral - you both have the same idea.

Som,
Expendables do drop like flies ONLY if you are going BLIND and hitting SL. If you are picking targets, the loss falls lower.

Collateral is right about the defense points - it doesn't matter how many defenses a person has - if the defense points are less, they will be beaten.

I don't know what lvls you both are, but have you gone all out and seen what the results are on
a) SL (hitting 10 lvl above you)
b) targetted killing on attack board

[Baghern]

Its a ratio that you need of Expendables and Proper units. In my case its submarines.


It feels like each unit has some kind of hitpoints, and as such when you fight someone you lose a certain amount of hitpoints, expendables having less you lose more.


What I've found from my own experimentation is that for the most part, you want a ration of around 20% of expendables... To get the less lost, in terms of $s.

Though this will obvious change from farm to farm... 15-25% I've found to be the best range.

Where I've gone above 25%, I've found I lost too many expendables.

ie where perviously I'd lose say 1 sub and 3 Expendables, I'd now lose 1 sub and 7 expendables.



Whats happening here, is that where previously a sub would of absorb those dmg... its now more spread out amongest the expendable, and since they have lower hps, they actually die.

[striker]

I agree w/ Baghern. Maxing out on expendables with give your attack power a massive shot in the arm, but will also increase your operational costs a great deal.

Simply using expendables to provide a bit of an attack boost will increase your win percentage while keeping your losses down to manageable levels.

[forwardmarch]

Striker, Baghern

Thanks for your answers, i will be moving up a level again and will conduct another test taking into account your points. I've summarized what you both said and results from my tests from 2 perspectives:

a) If you are going for clean kills with intent of making money, sub + expendables mix is ideal.

* expendable units should be around 20%
* subs help to absord the damage from attacks.


b)If you are going for BLIND kills on HL, i.e. hitting higher lvls
* max expendables

It must be noted that this approach will rarely help you break even. So you will only have stats to show for it.

I did a 2nd test based on the results of the 1st test.
I brought down the average unit loss to 11 per hit.
My avg gain per hit went up to 4.7MM with max i hit was 30 MM :)

I will be doing 2 tests over the next couple of days.
1a) based on the good suggestions of striker & Baghern = mix ratio test of UAVs
1b)mix ratio with other air units (non -expendables such as F-15)
2) go max with other air units (non -expendables such as F-15)

Will keep you all posted.

Anyone else have other suggestions/ observations please do comm.

Cheers

[striker]

Thanks for the research! :)

[moving up]

Hey FM
Any luck with the tests?

I'm going to try out what you suggested about having 25% UAVs as opposed to 100%.

[alcra]

I lke railgun troopers better than UAVs. Although their attack may not be high enough, it is quite okay to penetrate 50% of the defenses of the layers at my level when supplemented with 50% UAVs. Railgun troopers cost more but have a much smaller death rate and a much smaller replacement cost.

[forwardmarch]

I haven't had a chance to do my tests as i was busy. Will be hitting it sometime next week.

Alcra, that's an interesting observation! Never heard any one use infantry in an offensive way.

What level are you though?

[forwardmarch]

Striker, Baghern

Thanks for your answers, i will be moving up a level again and will conduct another test taking into account your points. I've summarized what you both said and results from my tests from 2 perspectives:

a) If you are going for clean kills with intent of making money, sub + expendables mix is ideal.

* expendable units should be around 20%
* subs help to absord the damage from attacks.


b)If you are going for BLIND kills on HL, i.e. hitting higher lvls
* max expendables

It must be noted that this approach will rarely help you break even. So you will only have stats to show for it.

I did a 2nd test based on the results of the 1st test.
I brought down the average unit loss to 11 per hit.
My avg gain per hit went up to 4.7MM with max i hit was 30 MM :)

I will be doing 2 tests over the next couple of days.
1a) based on the good suggestions of striker & Baghern = mix ratio test of UAVs
1b)mix ratio with other air units (non -expendables such as F-15)
2) go max with other air units (non -expendables such as F-15)

Will keep you all posted.

Anyone else have other suggestions/ observations please do comm.

Cheers

Just wanted to know if anyone else did any tests with Expendables / other air units?

I'm currently camping for the month so will be moving up in 2010.

So, if anyone would care to take up my tests for the sake of 'science' :), it will be appreciated by all here.

[Flow]

* expendable units should be around 20%
* subs help to absord the damage from attacks.

I don't think so.
At the same casualty rate you lose less units if you bring less units into the battle, thats obvious.

FLOW

[xnavigator]

3. Use them against targets with very less anti aircraft guns and turrets.



WHAT

are u saying this game got hard counter??!?!??!?!

[KnumbKnuts]

At level 138, after the 6/28/2010 Storm8 update eliminated the Upkeep for Expendable aircraft, I did a test of all three to determine their attrition rates. I already had a full complement of 4140 Aircraft Carriers. Then I purchased 400 of each of the Expendable aircraft:

400 IAI Harop UAV 135/0/$0
400 MQ-8B Fire Scout Helicopter 170/0/$0
400 BAE Mantis UAV 180/0/$0

Then I rode the sanction list, winning numerous battles, and losing one, until I reached a count of 300 (or less) on any of the three aircraft. I did not replenish any units. The final result was:

313 IAI Harop UAV 135/0/$0
336 MQ-8B Fire Scout Helicopter 170/0/$0
299 BAE Mantis UAV 180/0/$0

My conclusion is as follows: If you are on a lower level and can live with only 135 points of firepower then stick with the IAI Harop UAVs as they are the cheapest. If you are on a medium level then the MQ-8Bs are the best option. If you are on a higher level then chances are that the extra 10 points of firepower from the BAE Mantis UAV is not going to matter in too many battles, especially with the 163 and 171 points of defense from the Albion Landing Platform Dock and Type 23 Frigate respectively. Go with the Boeing NGB Bomber or Shenyang J-8 at that point.

One more note: Regardless of your level and game strategy you should now keep a full complement (plus 10%) of your favorite Expendable aircraft either to use in battle, or as a warning to your potential attackers. For example, I keep 4500 MQ-8Bs around to make attackers think twice.

I hope this helps.

R

[Blownapart]

Then I rode the sanction list, winning numerous battles, and losing one, until I reached a count of 300 (or less) on any of the three aircraft. I did not replenish any units. The final result was:

313 IAI Harop UAV 135/0/$0
336 MQ-8B Fire Scout Helicopter 170/0/$0
299 BAE Mantis UAV 180/0/$0


Are you saying you lost them at a roughly equal rate?

[Kykah]

Since the no up keep expenses came into effect I attack solely with expendables now. For me the 24 hr up keep of some other fleet of attack units is far greater than the replacement costs of expendables. I'm level 68 running the fire scout helicopters.